The Cast of “Wicked” the Movie Talks Inspiration and Approach – Part 1
Wickeddebuted to rave reviews at the 1998 Sundance Film Festival, with John Cooper calling it an “exhilarating hybrid that continuously surprises and amuses” in the festival’s program. The thriller is a twisted tale of murder and incest with noir sensibilities and biting dark wit. The driving force behind the film is its stellar cast, who deliver complex, compelling, and sometimes shocking performances.
Directed by Michael Steinberg and produced by Frank Beddor, Wicked served as the breakthrough for Julia Stiles. The then-16-year-old is electric as Ellie Christianson, a troubled teen who despises her mother and has an unhealthy obsession with her father. Stiles won Best Actress at the Karlovy Vary International Film Festival in the Czech Republic, and her performance as Ellie led to her being cast in the teen classic 10 Things I Hate About You.
William R. Moses delivers a nuanced performance as Ellie’s father-turned-lover, Ben, while Chelsea Field is an excellent counterpoint as his doomed wife, Karen. Vanessa Zima exhibits uncommon depth for a child actor as Inger. Newcomer Louise Myrback is captivating as the Christianson’s au pair, Lena. Grammy-winner Linda Hart brings humor and soul as nosy neighbor Mrs. Potter, while screen veteran Michael Parks seems to step out of the ‘40s as the Bogart-esque Detective Boland. Melrose Place baddie Patrick Muldoon is a serial scene-stealer as quirky next-door neighbor Lawson Smith.
We recently digitized a treasure trove of onset interviews in which the cast goes deep on everything from their characters’ psyches to how they think audiences will respond to the incendiary subject matter.
This is Part 1 of a three-part series that will be a fascinating look at an actor’s process, how they handled the challenging material and the fulfilling experience of working on Wicked.
*Interviews have been edited for length and clarity.
On Her Character Ellie’s very complex and very interesting. She changes throughout the movie, and it’s hard to sum her up in a few sentences. She loves her father very much and focuses on him and getting his undying love. She’s very powerful and in control. She knows how to get what she wants and uses that. She goes through her life with blinders on and has her own little world in Casa Del Norte.
What Attracted Her to Wicked So many things in the script attracted me to the project. Normally, when I read scripts, I stop halfway through and can’t finish them. This one, I was racing through pages. Ellie is such a great character, and artistically, it is so challenging to play her. Then, I saw Michael Steinberg’s work and thought it would be great to work with him. As far as the controversial subject matter, I was a little hesitant, but I’d written a letter to Frank and Michael about my thoughts on the script, and I mentioned I was a little uneasy about how it might be perceived. But they had such good ideas for the whole thing I really wanted the job.
The Controversial Nature of the Script One thing that was so refreshing to me when I read the script was I really liked the way they dealt with the controversial subject matter. Absolutely nothing was shown. It was all implied. I read so many really sleazy, gross scripts involving people as young as me, but in Wicked, it’s all implied, so it’s almost even freakier. I really like that.
Ellie’s Arc At the beginning of the movie, Ellie is very spunky and playful. She doesn’t have any friends. She goes to school and gets picked on. She’s also very rebellious in the way she dresses, the way she acts, and the way she fights with her mother. It’s a little weirder than usual. But in the middle of the movie, she’s emulating her mother.
As a Suspect in Karen’s Murder Ellie’s motive to kill Karen would be to get Karen out of the picture so Ellie can get her father’s love. Also, Ellie doesn’t get along with her mother. Karen threatens to take the kids away because she and Ben are gonna get a divorce, and that scares Ellie so much because she wants to be with her father.
Ellie’s Relationship with Inger At the beginning of the movie, there’s sibling rivalry, but Ellie defends Inger. Ellie doesn’t focus on Inger that much, and sometimes they fight, but it’s not unusual. Then it starts to turn.
Handling the Tonal Changes With certain scenes, the point is going along with the murder mystery aspect but with others, it’s going along with the comedy aspect. You can tell when it’s supposed to be funny and when it’s not. When I read the script, there were parts I laughed at, and I thought, “Am I supposed to laugh at that?” After talking to Frank and Michael, I saw that they knew they wanted it to be funny at times. That made it appeal to me even more. It’s the kind of comedy where you laugh at something and go, “Maybe I’m kind of sick for laughing at that?”
On His Character Ben Christianson is a family man who lives in the suburbs. He’s a very successful man financially and very concerned with pursuing the American dream. He presents the image of a very successful, very loving father. He’s a bit like a walking Ford commercial. It looks perfect from the outside, but his interior spaces are darker and more conflicted. Ben is full of guilt, anxiety, and anger and is involved in a relationship that’s not working. He is not a very forward-thinking person. He can only see what’s right in front of him. He becomes this walking time bomb of anxiety, guilt, and depression. Ben’s a prime candidate for a Prozac sandwich.
What Attracted Him to Wicked The daringness of it. There are elements in this script that are so daring and so frightening that it’s like being on the top of the Golden Gate Bridge and looking down. People who fear heights become so frightened they have to jump. This was a role that, as an actor, because it’s so unsettling and disturbing, compels you to jump into it.
The Controversial Nature of the Script You always have those trepidations. I am a father with a small child. But on the other hand, I’m also an actor, and you look for material that can be exciting, unique, innovative, and even controversial. Not just controversial for the sake of controversy but because of the challenge of making the unimaginable become imaginable and understandable to an audience. How do you create that emotional reality and then put it up on screen? I’ve been acting since I was 19 years old and trying to solve this paradox within this part in this movie is the most satisfying creative experience I’ve ever had.
How He Would Describe Wicked How do you describe the indescribable? How do you explain the unexplainable or imaginable? Wicked is a murder mystery but it carries into some very different realms. It exists in an imaginary suburb called Casa Del Norte, the world of which is astounding. The movie starts with a very firm reality and starts spinning into this amazing, unique tale.
Ben’s Troubled Marriage Ben is involved in a miserable marriage. Ben and Karen have probably been married for quite a while and have had trouble for many years. At the start of the movie, we’re witnessing a marriage collapsing. The family is very close to being blown apart. Ben is having an affair with his nanny, and Karen is having an affair with the neighbor, and they both suspect each other. We’re witnessing a very troubled marriage.
Ben’s Relationship with His Daughters Ben loves his daughters and is particularly close to his oldest daughter, Ellie. He thinks he’s the most wonderful father. Dr. Spock or family psychologists probably wouldn’t view him that way, but Ben sees it as, “Look, you can tell my daughters love me. I’m very special to them.”
Handling the Emotional Roller Coaster of the Film Living in the confines of the Casa Del Norte soundstage for the last ten days has been amazing. It’s like somebody put Alka-Seltzer in my bloodstream because it’s been an amazing ride, especially with the emotionality required for the character. I’m becoming a very strange human being playing this part.
I feel like a trapeze artist. You let go of the bar, and you’re soaring through the air, and you either hope the catcher catches you or you catch the bar on the return. You’re either gonna fall into an abyss, or you’ll catch the bar and swing to the other side and have this tremendous feeling of exhilaration.
Working with Director Michael Steinberg I’ve been acting since I was 19 years old, and Michael Steinberg is the best director I’ve ever worked with, bar none. The whole process of working with Michael has been incredible. He’s like this mad scientist, and we’re working on this project that plays with you on every level. Michael is an amazing talent and an amazing human being. I think The Waterdance is an incredible film. Wicked is quite a departure. This movie, for all of us, represents a departure. It’s a very unique script. Any actor who gets to work with Mike Steinberg is truly blessed. He’s wonderful, and he and our producer, Frank, are quite the dynamic duo.
On Her Character In an early meeting, we discussed that Mrs. Potter is probably a former Miss Casa Del Norte. It’s not really discussed if she has kids from a former marriage, but she’s definitely a single woman. You can tell by how she carries herself and how she dresses that she is definitely looking for Mr. Right to come back around, or maybe for the first time. She meets this interesting detective, played by Michael Parks, in this movie of ours, and they hit it off in an odd way.
Mrs. Potter is the comic relief. I get to sing in this movie and at a wedding—I won’t tell you whose wedding—but I sing at a wedding. They picked the song “I Honestly Love You,” which I used to do years ago in my act, so it was fun to do it again.
Karen’s Murder When Detective Boland first meets Mrs. Potter, she is questioned as if she could be a suspect, but that ends pretty quickly. However, Mrs. Potter has some good instincts, which she combines with being a nosy body. She’s trying to piece things together, but she feels it’s one person throughout the movie, even though other little clues fall into place. She never lets go of her initial thought on who it is.
What Attracted Her to Wicked I was attracted to the director before I read the script. Michael Steinberg wrote me a couple of letters and asked if I would read the script and consider playing Mrs. Potter. With that letter came a wonderful bio on him and some of the work that he’d done, which I was familiar with. I thought that was very flattering. I liked his style and I liked the way the guy wrote a letter. He wrote two letters. It was, “Read the letter. Read the script. Then read letter two after you read the script.” Then he told me how he was gonna shoot it and all of that, but when I read the script, I couldn’t put it down. I read it on the plane from New York to L.A. and I just kept flipping those pages. When I found out who had done it, I was shocked
The Weirdness in Wicked There are a lot of weird people in this film. Everybody is scarred. Everybody is flawed. It’s interesting because Mrs. Potter is really one of the good guys in the script along with Detective Boland. But he’s had a checkered past, you can tell by looking in his eyes. Mrs. Potter is more of one who wants a checkered past. But I think she’s one of the few redeeming characters. Everybody in this movie should be in therapy. They are not going to Sunday school on Saturday and Sunday morning, that’s for sure.
Working with the Cast I worked with Julia only on two scenes, but she was really connected to the material and absolutely terrific. She’s a fine actress, but I can only imagine where her career will take her.
Michael Parks, talk about “still waters run deep.” Michael and I met years ago. My very first job in the whole world was on the Johnny Cash show in Nashville, where Michael came on and sang. So, on the first day of shooting, I went up to him and said, “I’m sure you don’t remember me. I was a teenager in Nashville, Tennessee, and we did the Johnny Cash show together.” He looked at me and looked at me again, and he said, “Now I’m gonna have to fall in love with you, too.” We had a great time. We sang on the set almost every day. He knows every song ever written, from Cole Porter to Hoagy Carmichael to Kern to Rodgers and Hart. He knows Willie Nelson, too. The storehouse of musical information in his head is really overwhelming.
Billy (William R. Moses) has the best name show business. Billy Moses, it sounds like he’s gonna come out of a Ben-Hur movie or something. He was great. He has a unique wiriness that is so perfect for the part. He has a unique combination of talent and chemistry and a vibe about him that is very mysterious. It’s absolutely dead-on perfect for this part.
How Audiences Will Respond to Wicked Everybody loves a good murder mystery, and so many people could have done it in this particular script. So many people had the window of opportunity and the reason to do it. Everybody loves a good ole whodunit.
On His Character What makes Boland tick? A paycheck. Curiosity. People in this field of criminology are curious folks. They’re invasive, though he’s a little less invasive than most. From looking at the film, they tell me that it looks like something out of a film noir, out of the 1940s or something, but there are few of those old dinosaurs left. They had a different approach than a lot of the younger ones now.
The Unimaginative Liddells: Princess Alyss’ Never-Before-Seen Letters – Part 2
Back in 2007, we collaborated with noted Alyssian historian Agnes MacKenzie to publish Princess Alyss of Wonderland, a stunning collection of letters, journal writings, and art from Her Royal Imaginer Princess Alyss Heart. These breathtaking documents chronicled the incredible childhood of Wonderland’s exiled heir apparent and future hero of The Looking Glass Wars.
In April, we released the first round of never-before-seen letters, journal entries, and art from Princess Alyss Heart’s exile on Earth. Part One spanned Alyss’ flight from Wonderland and how she survived her first days on the rough streets of London.
When we last left Princess Alyss she had just been arrested by the London bobbies and sent to the notorious Charing Cross Orphanage. In Part Two, Alyss recounts the horrors of this ignominious institute, her disappointment at being adopted by the unimaginative Liddells, and why she tried to break into Buckingham Palace.
(*As always, I am indebted to the tireless and exhaustive research of the eminent Wonderland historian Agnes MacKenzie. Her dedication has helped keep the true story of Queen Alyss alive!)
Agnes MacKenzie Worlds collide in this document dated May 24, 1859, when a man of science, Dr. Williford, the physician at London’s Charing Cross Foundling Hospital unknowingly examined a princess from another realm. Written in his precise script, the intake form lists Alyss’ height, weight, and hair color, and contains notes on her attitude and dress. Special attention was paid to the unusual fabric of her dress, “finer than any silk and yet so strong as to repel all stains and misc. damage with the exception of one vicious gash”. Alyss is described as having luminous coloring, a willful, imperious attitude, and an intense aversion to felines. When asked where her family is she insisted they are in a place called “Wonderland”. The doctor’s keen eye noted the unusual qualities of the child, but his mind could not open to the concept of ‘Wonderland’. Dr. Williford comments that if her oddness can be contained the wardens have high hopes for placing her in a family of good standing because “the child obviously has quite exceptional bloodlines”. Indeed.
October 2, 1861 When I was delivered to the orphanage I erupted into a terrible screaming temper tantrum. How dare they???? This place was certainly not meant for children, it must be a prison for something exceptionally evil and nasty. But I was wrong, children were everywhere and the only things evil and nasty living here were the ward mistresses with their stiff collars and drab skirts weighed down with bundles of heavy keys to lock the doors that kept us all from running away. I loathed it there so much that I looked forward to escaping into my dreams each night but even this became unbearable because my dreams soon had a very unwelcome visitor.
The Cat! Each night it would sneak into my sleep and invade my dreams with its growls and hisses and hot, stinky cat breath! It had the stinkiest breath I have ever smelled in a dream!
October 8, 1861 Dreams are only nightmares if you let them do what they wish. One night I decided that rather than being frightened of what was chasing me, I would imagine that I was running towards something beautiful. There were endless doors lining the halls and I imagined I would find my mother if I opened the very last door. But when the door opened, instead of seeing her I saw all her favorite flowers. And I could smell her favorite perfume. Eau de’Pink. It smells very PINK and I love it.
November 10, 1861 I was adopted by a very dull and unimaginative family named Liddell and brought to live in their home in Christ Church, Oxford. Living in a home was very different from living in a palace and I found it difficult to adjust as I believe ANY Princess would. Everything was so small and smelled rather of burned vegetables while my bedchamber was just ridiculous. The bed didn’t even float! How could I even begin to get a perfect night’s sleep???? The Liddells did not believe in Wonderland or that a real princess could come to their world and even though I repeatedly corrected them, they insisted on changing my name to Alice. HOW RUDE!!!!!
Agnes MacKenzie Uncertain of their adopted daughter’s bloodlines and wishing to make a suitable marriage (a prince perhaps???) Henry and Lorina Liddell chose to keep her origin top secret by destroying all records of the adoption, even going so far as to forge an ‘Alice Liddell’ birth certificate which modern genealogical forensics easily exposed to be false! The child was simply not born in this world.
November 11, 1861 In Wonderland I had always remembered my dreams. Why was I unable to remember my dreams now? Aha! I wasn’t sleeping in a dreamgown! When I inquired of Mrs. Liddell when I would be fitted for my dreamgown, she looked alarmed. I explained that in Wonderland there were special gowns in which you slept to capture your dreams. The dreams would be reflected on the gown so you wouldn’t forget anything important. I had closets full of dreamgowns in Wonderland but requested only ONE for here. I thought I was being quite modest but Mrs. Liddell opened her mouth very wide and shouted at me “You must STOP your incessant impossible imagining. You dream too much as it is ALICE!” Dream too much??? How sad to think that anyone could ever dream TOO MUCH. I spent the rest of the day locked in my dark little dungeon of a bedroom imagining and drawing dreamgowns….
From left to right: Proper sister Lorina – A grown-up lady in the body of a little girl; Cruel Governess Pricks – She actually prefers sour to sweet!; Mr. and Mrs. Liddell – Equally gloomy on all occasions; Me – If it weren’t for my hollizalea headdress and mini-rainbow I should fear becoming just like them!; Baby Edith – There may still be hope for her.
February 22, 1862 Yesterday Mr. and Mrs. Liddell brought Lorina and I to London to visit the exhibition at the Crystal Palace. The palace reminded me very much of Heart Palace and I felt all sorts of sad and glad memories about Wonderland. It also made me remember something VITAL! When I first arrived in London I shot out of that puddle into the center of a parade and saw a golden carriage. There was a woman in the carriage waving to the crowd. It was a Queen! Had mother traveled here to meet me? I had run after the carriage and chased it all the way to a palace but a row of soldiers blocked my entrance. I told them I was Princess Alyss Heart and ordered them to allow me to pass. At this, they began to laugh. Vowing to return to this palace called Buck-ing-ham I ran back in search of the puddle that had brought me here. I had forgotten all of this until the Liddells brought me on this visit to London. And suddenly I knew what had happened! Mother had followed me to London but had been kidnapped and imprisoned by Redd at the palace known as Buck-ing-ham!!!!! It all made perfect sense and it was up to me to rescue my mother.
February 23, 1862 Enough was enough! How could I pretend to live the childish life of Alice Liddell in her nursery eating porridge when I was certain that Redd had imprisoned my mother in the palace called Buck-ing-ham? This had to be the reason for everything horrible that had happened. Redd had wished to be queen but Wonderland already had a queen, my mother. Redd must have come to London through the Pool of Tears and become the queen known as Victoria! Being the Queen of London was not anywhere as grand as being the Queen of Wonderland and Redd was jealous of my mother so she kidnapped her and locked her in Buck-ing-ham Palace!!! I was positive that my mother was there now waiting for me to rescue her.
February 27, 1862 My preparations complete, I set forth on my mission to rescue my mother from Queen ‘Victoria’ (ha!). I noticed that whenever I thought of seeing my mother my imagination would suddenly become very strong. I would picture my mother and I in the garden at Heart Palace and I would suddenly be filled with all sorts of imaginings on how to get to London and how I would find a pair of jollyjelly wings and sail over the wall past those snickering guards. I had my train tickets, maps, and a packet of peppermints should I become weak from hunger and need energy. I was so excited I could have flown to London. I did consider collecting and pasting bird feathers to my arms and setting off from the roof of the Liddell’s house but I could not find enough feathers.
March 10, 1862 Disaster! Unable to locate a pair of jollyjelly wings I decided to dig my way in under the palace fence. The passage under the fence was a tight fit and horror of horrors I became stuck! I felt a tug on my feet and was soon face to face with the redcoated guards laughing harder than ever. I was imprisoned and given only a very small amount of tea and cake until Mr. Liddell could come and fetch me back to Oxford. Oh, the dreadfulness of my mood. And the worst was yet to come. Governess Pricks was waiting at the front door when we pulled up in the carriage. Her words felt like a storm of pinches as she scolded me for being a selfish, ridiculous child. But as she continued on and on with ever more insults I could only hear my own small voice repeating over and over “How shall I ever return home now?”
Agnes MacKenzie Not long after this ill-fated excursion to London, Alyss was to meet someone who would lift her spirits and give her hope (if only to later smash it to pieces!)
*Stay tuned for Part Three, in which Alyss meets the Oxford mathematician who would change her life forever – Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (Lewis Carroll).
Where Are They Now? Johnny Depp and the Cast of Tim Burton’s “Alice in Wonderland”
We figured out how to make pictures move in the late 1800s and not long after, adaptations of one of the most popular stories in world history started popping up. The first film adaptation of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland ran twelve minutes and was noted for its innovative use of special effects. Since then, there have been over thirty Alice in Wonderland films including the iconic Disney animated movie. In 2006, Disney went into development on an updated Alice adaptation and hired Batman and Sleepy Hollow director Tim Burton, whose gothic sensibilities and singular visual style had delighted both audiences and critics alike.
Released in 2010, Alice in Wonderland is a loose adaptation of Carroll’s tale, following nineteen-year-old Alice Kingsleigh as she rediscovers Wonderland and learns she is destined to dethrone the tyrannical Red Queen. The film was a smash at the box office, raking in over $1 billion worldwide, making it the second-highest-grossing film of the year behind Toy Story 3. Burton’s Alice was lauded for its style, tone, and use of CGI, with Michael Rechtshaffen writing in The Hollywood Reporter, “Burton has delivered a subversively witty, brilliantly cast, whimsically appointed dazzler…” And what about that cast? The star-studded ensemble featured longtime Burton collaborators Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter alongside Anne Hathaway, Mia Wasikowska, and Alan Rickman. Their subsequent careers have been filled with franchise blockbusters, critical acclaim, and (interestingly) Les Miserables.
Let’s take a look at what Burton and his stars have been up to since the release of Alice in Wonderland:
Tim Burton – Director A favorite of film students and Halloween enthusiasts, Tim Burton came into Alice on a twenty-year hot streak. From Beetlejuice to Batman, from Sleepy Hollow to Sweeney Todd, Burton was the go-to guy for offbeat stories infused with humor and horror set against a backdrop of surreal and fantastical visuals. Alice in Wonderland proved to be his greatest commercial success, grossing more than his previous four films combined, and earned Burton a Golden Globe nod for Best Motion Picture – Musical or Comedy. Since then, the results have been…mixed. Burton found critical success with 2012’s Frankenweenie while Dark Shadows, Miss Peregrine’s Home for Peculiar Children, and his 2019 adaptation of Dumbo were moderate financial successes but failed to win over critics. In 2022 he dipped into TV for the first time in thirty-five years with the hit Netflix series Wednesday starring Jenny Ortega, who, incidentally, would be a perfect fit as Princess Alyss. Burton’s next project is the highly anticipated Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. The sequel to his 1988 cult classic sees him reunited with Michael Keaton, Winona Ryder, Catherine O’Hara, and Ortega and is slated to be released in September 2024.
Johnny Depp – Tarrant Hightopp/Mad Hatter Johnny Depp’s career since Alice in Wonderland has been a smorgasbord of hits, tent poles, flops, and some quintessentially Deppian performances. First the good. The alt-core heartthrob followed up his predictably quirky turn as the Mad Hatter with a Golden Globe nomination for his work in the romantic thriller The Tourist and provided the title voice for Rango, which won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature. Depp reprised his role as the iconic Jack Sparrow in the latest installments of the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise and stole the screen as Gellert Grindelwald in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and The Crimes of Grindelwald. Critical and commercial flops came in the form of The Lone Ranger and Transcendence (and a few others) but Depp earned rave reviews for his performances as two of the 20th century’s most successful criminals – Boston mob boss James “Whitey” Bulger in Black Mass and Donald Trump in Donald Trump’s The Art of the Deal: The Movie. He has also found time to indulge in his passion for music, releasing two albums with Hollywood Vampires, a rock supergroup featuring Alice Cooper and Joe Perry, and collaborating with guitar legend Jeff Beck. Up next, Depp is at the helm of Modi, a drama about Bohemian artist Amedeo Modigliani, and is set to play Satan opposite Jeff Bridges’ God in Terry Gilliam’s new comedy.
Mia Wasikowska – Alice Kingsleigh Australian actress Mia Wasikowska was a relative unknown before being cast as Carroll’s heroine at twenty-one years old. She had earned critical acclaim for her performance in the HBO series In Treatment but playing Alice launched her into the stratosphere. Wasikowska won the Hollywood Awards’ Breakthrough Artist Award, the Australian Film Institute International Award for Best Actress, and was included in the 2011 Time 100. Immediately following Alice, Wasikowska starred in the Oscar-nominated dramedy The Kids Are All Right and played opposite Michael Fassbender in Cary Joji Fukunaga’s adaptation of Jane Eyre. Wasikowska has also worked with an impressive list of directors including Gus Van Sant, Park Chan-wook, Jim Jarmusch, David Cronenberg, and Guillermo del Toro. After reprising her role as Alice in the 2016 sequel, Alice Through the Looking Glass, Wasikowska took a step back from the mainstream industry, choosing to focus on more intimate, character-driven projects. She was nominated for an Australian Oscar for her work in the 2019 dark comedy Judy and Punch and starred in the 2021 romantic drama Bergman Island alongside Tim Roth, which premiered at Cannes. Wasikowska’s latest film was the 2023 dark comedy thriller Club Zero, which also premiered at Cannes and was nominated for the Palme d’Or.
Helena Bonham Carter – Iracebeth/Red Queen The endlessly versatile Helena Bonham Carter had a pretty good 2010. She starred in The King’s Speech as Queen Consort Elizabeth, for which she was nominated for an Oscar, won an international Emmy for her work in the BBC Four television film Enid, and played the deliciously evil Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland. After Alice, Bonham Carter finished her work as the unhinged Bellatrix Lestrange in the Harry Potter franchise and played the unscrupulous Madame Thenardier in Tom Hooper’s Les Miserables. Her choice of film roles over the past decade and a half has reflected her love for period pieces (Suffragette, Enola Holmes) and quiet dramas (One Life). Bonham Carter has also been nominated for Golden Globes and Emmys for playing Elizabeth Taylor in the TV film Burton & Taylor and Princess Margaret in the Netflix series, The Crown. Her upcoming projects include the 2024 drama Four Letters of Love alongside Pierce Brosnan and an adaptation of the Agatha Christie novel The Seven Dials Mystery from Broadchurch creator Chris Chibnall. Also, in 2011, Bonham Carter narrated Anne Frank’s The Diary of a Young Girl for Penguin Audios.
Anne Hathaway – Mirana/White Queen Anne Hathaway was a movie star before Alice in Wonderland. She’s been a movie star since Alice in Wonderland. In another fourteen years, she’ll probably still be a movie star. After starring in Alice as the multidimensional White Queen, Hathaway continued to conquer Hollywood. In 2012, she starred in another $1 billion movie, Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Rises, in which she played the enigmatic Selina Kyle/Catwoman and broke hearts in Les Miserables as the tragic Fantine, a performance which earned her the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. Hathaway has also showcased her range playing in comedies The Intern opposite Robert DeNiro and The Hustle alongside Rebel Wilson. She also channeled her own exeperiences (possibly) for the 2018 heist comedy Ocean’s 8. Recently, Hathaway starred in the Apple TV+ miniseries WeCrashed and the Amazon romcom The Idea of You. Her upcoming projects include David Robert Mitchell’s sci-fi film Flowervale, also starring Ewan McGregor, and David Lowery’s epic melodrama Mother Mary. Offscreen, Hathaway has devoted much of her time to activism and charitable causes. She has worked with the World Bank, was appointed a UN Women Goodwill ambassador in 2016, and was one of 300 women who founded the Time’s Up initiative.
Michael Sheen – Nivens McTwisp/White Rabbit Michael Sheen is delightful as the voice of the twitchy, chronophobic White Rabbit. Before being cast in Alice, Sheen was already part of a billion-dollar franchise, playing a telepathic vampire in the Twilight movies. He reprised that role in the final two installments, Breaking Dawn Parts 1 & 2, in 2011 and 2012. On stage, Sheen has played Hamlet at the Young Vic in London and Mozart’s rival Salieri in a production of Amadeus at the Sydney Opera House. Most of his notable work post-Alice has come in TV. He was nominated for a Golden Globe for his performances as sex researcher William Masters in the Showtime series Masters of Sex and has received critical acclaim for his work as the angel Aziraphale in Neil Gaiman’s Good Omens. In 2024, Sheen co-created and directed the BBC One three-part series The Way and is currently in production on A Very Royal Scandal, in which he’ll portray Prince Andrew. Like Hathaway, Sheen is also passionate about charitable work and social advocacy, with most of his efforts centered on his native Wales. In 2021, in an interview with The Guardian, Sheen declared that he would give all of his future earnings to charity.
Alan Rickman – Absolem the Caterpillar The beloved Alan Rickman sadly passed away in 2016, but he left a glittering legacy as a tremendous actor and warm and generous coworker and friend. His iconic voice lends gravitas and humor to the character of Absolem the Caterpillar. After his work on Alice, Rickman wrapped up his decade-long portrayal of sinister Potions Master Severus Snape in the Harry Potter franchise and directed, co-wrote, and starred in the period drama A Little Chaos. On stage, he starred in productions of the Henrik Ibsen play John Gabriel Borkman in Dublin and Brooklyn and was nominated for a Drama League Award for his work on Broadway in Theresa Rebeck’s Seminar. In addition to his work as an actor, Rickman was also an ardent humanitarian. He was a patron of the Saving Faces charity and was honorary president of the International Performer’s Aid Trust. His last recorded work was a video in support of an Oxford University campaign to raise money and awareness for Save the Children and Refugee Council. Rickman’s final two films, Eye in the Sky and Alice Through the Looking Glass, were devoted to his memory.
Stephen Fry – Cheshire Comedian, author, and actor Stephen Fry was a perfect fit for the Cheshire Cat with his professorial bearing and imperious voice. Fry has kept extremely busy since Alice, starting with his turn as the villainous Master of Lake-town in Peter Jackson’s The Hobbit films. He has also starred in the Amazon romcom Red, White, and Royal Blue and played opposite Lena Dunham in the 2024 tragicomedy Treasure. On TV, he has appeared in Heartstopper, The Dropout, The Sandman, and The Morning Show, in addition to hosting the acclaimed British panel show QI, which he left in 2016. He has produced and presented documentaries about mental health and Dutch resistance to the Nazis for the BBC and Channel Four. Fry has also churned out five books in the last fourteen years, including a memoir and a three-part retelling of Greek myths. Fry’s charity work and advocacy has focused on nature and wildlife conservation and climate change.
Crispin Glover – Ilosovic Stayne/Knave of Hearts Alice in Wonderland was one of four films in which the singular Crispin Glover appeared in 2010. In another example of perfect casting by Burton, Glover is excellent as the Red Queen’s right hand, the shifty Knave of Hearts. After a busy 2010, Glover continued his eclectic work in film and television. He played opposite John Cusack and Robert DeNiro in the neo-noir crime thriller The Bag Man and appeared in the 2018 mystery thriller We Have Always Lived in the Castle starring Alexandra Daddario and Sebastian Stan. On TV, Glover starred in the History Channel miniseries Texas Rising and played Mr. World in the Starz fantasy series American Gods. Glover currently has two films in post-production, the mystery Mr. K and the thriller A Blind Bargain.
Matt Lucas – Tweedledee/Tweedledum Tweedledee and Tweedledum are arguably the creepiest characters in Tim Burton’s Alice in Wonderland and they’re perfectly portrayed by British comedian Matt Lucas. The Little Britain co-creator has grown in prominence on both sides of the pond since appearing in Alice. Lucas stole scenes alongside Rebel Wilson as one of Kristen Wiig’s cringey roommates in Bridesmaids and received BAFTA TV and British Comedy Awards nominations for the BBC One comedy Come Fly With Me. In recent years, Lucas has appeared in two iconic British shows, Doctor Who and The Great British Bake Off, the latter of which he co-hosted with Noel Fielding until 2023. On stage, Lucas has played Thenardier in Les Miserables in the West End on three separate occasions and in a 25th-anniversary concert at The O2 Arena in London. His upcoming projects include an unspecified role in Ridley Scott’s Gladiator 2 and the animated musical Fairy Tale Forest alongside Mel Brooks and Whoopi Goldberg.
An itinerant storyteller, John Drain attended the University of Edinburgh before studying film at DePaul University in Chicago and later earned an MFA in Screenwriting from the American Film Institute Conservatory. John focuses on writing mysteries and thrillers featuring characters who are thrown into the deep end of the pool and struggle to just keep their heads above water. His work has been recognized by the Academy Nicholls Fellowship, the Austin Film Festival, ScreenCraft, Cinestory, and the Montreal Independent Film Festival. In a previous life, John created and produced theme park attractions across the globe for a wide variety of audiences. John keeps busy in his spare time with three Dungeons and Dragons campaigns and a seemingly never-ending stack of medieval history books.
A Royal Affair: The Suit Families Who Rule Wonderland
In Frank Beddor’s The Looking Glass Wars trilogy, he reimagines the iconic characters from Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. Whimsical, silly, nonsense characters become fantastical warriors, fierce creatures, and politically savage families grasping for power. I’m just scratching the surface but here are my favorite examples: Hatter Madigan is Beddor’s reimagined Mad Hatter. Instead of a caffeine-addicted crazy person, he is a multiple-blade-wielding bodyguard for Princess Alyss. General Doppelgänger, who is based on Tweedledee and Tweedledum, is a fierce general who can split into two separate entities. And, of course, there is the Cat. Frank Beddor’s take on the Cheshire Cat, the Cat is Queen Red’s faithful assassin. Frank expanded and transformed the already rich world Carroll created into his own. This is most obvious when it comes to the different suit families.
The suit families in The Looking Glass Wars are the rulers of Wonderland. Every royal in Wonderland is allied with one of the four suits: Hearts, Diamonds, Spades, and Clubs. With each suit family, there is a unique culture, skillset, and card soldier fighting force. Instead of simply stating each family’s culture and such, I think it would be fun to compare the suit families with other families from media and history.
Let’s start with the Hearts. The Hearts are the oldest suit family in Wonderland. They are the ruling house, where the matriarch rules as the Queen of Wonderland. Due to the family’s deep history, they value loyalty above all else. Another fictional family that shares a lot of similarities with the Hearts is the Stark family from George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire and its TV adaptation, Game of Thrones. The Stark family, much like every family in Game of Thrones, is put through the wringer, especially after that whole “Red Wedding” debacle. No matter what happens to them though, they are always there for each other. This is just like the Heart family. In The Looking Glass Wars, there is a coup that can be compared to the Red Wedding. The family leader, Queen Genevieve, is killed, leaving Princess Alyss Heart on her own, forcing her on a long arduous, journey towards becoming a warrior princess, much like Arya Stark in Game of Thrones.
Next up are the Spades. The Spade family today are known for their stealth and wild technology. Their cities are so technologically advanced they look similar to central Tokyo in our world. The Spades are essentially addicted to technology, so much so that mad scientists carry out forbidden experiments in dark towers and castles on the outskirts of Spade cities. The Spades have the bloodiest history of all the suits. Originally slaves, they managed to stage a successful rebellion against their rulers. Due to their past enslavement, the Spades are a tight-knit group who are wary of outsiders. The Spades have fought for their power and will do anything to keep it. A great comparison for the Spades is the Borgia family. The Borgias were a power-hungry Spanish noble house active in Italy during the Renaissance. The Borgia family murdered, bribed, and stole their way to the top of the Catholic Church then did some more murdering, bribing, and stealing to maintain control of the Vatican. In fact, we still are feeling these effects today. I want you to close your eyes. Now I want you to open your eyes because I realized you won’t be able to read this. But imagine Jesus in your mind’s eye. You see that blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy, right? Well, that’s Cesare Borgia, SON of POPE Alexander VI. That’s a golden calf if I’ve ever seen one. While some may refute this, many other smarter people don’t. This is the type of power the Borgias had and if I’m comparing them to the ruthless Spades…I’ll let you figure out the rest.
Alright, now we are onto the Clubs. The Clubs came from explorers and wandering outcasts, rebellious against authority and valuing freedom above all else. I’m stuck between two different options for comparisons. The first are the Orks from Warhammer 40,000. These are not your Tolkien-esque orcs of yesteryear. No, these Orks are extremely aggressive semi-psychic space fungi who are most happy bashing heads on the battlefield. Okay, extremely aggressive semi-psychic space fungi might not sound like the Clubs at first but allow me to persuade you. Like the Clubs, Orks are broken into different clans (tribes). They value absolute freedom (on the battlefield to kill whoever they want), are fantastic warriors, and are green which is the regimental color of the Club military. Right, so that’s option one for the comparison. My second comparison for the clubs is the United States. Actually, if you switch out Orks with the U.S., it has the same sentiment, so I’m going to say it’s both.
Finally, there are the Diamonds. The Diamonds are descendants of merchants and traders and have an insatiable lust for acquiring wealth. The Diamonds, much like their literal gemstone counterparts, enjoy flaunting their wealth. Their desire for financial gain makes them exceptionally cunning in their political schemes. A great comparison is House Harkonnen from Frank Herbert’s Dune. For those of you who only saw the movies that came out recently, Dave Bautista and Austin Butler were members of House Harkonnen. While Dave and Austin’s characters were extremely volatile, Baron Harkonnen, who was played by Stellan Skarsgård, embodies the Diamonds the most. He wanted acquisition at all costs, manipulated politics into his favor using “spice” and the money he made with it, and was extremely opulent. Those black goo baths had to be expensive, no one else partook in them.
While these comparisons are not exactly apples to apples, I wanted to show those who have not had the pleasure of reading The Looking Glass Wars what the different suit households of Wonderland were like in a very digestible form. Comparing one intellectual property to another can sometimes be a bit reductive. The suit families are more complex than the descriptions I used just as the other IPs are more complex. That being said, I’m remaining hopeful that one day in the future an underpaid writer will create a blog comparing their boss’s characters to other IPs and use something from The Looking Glass Wars TV show as an example.
Jared Hoffman graduated from the American Film Institute with a degree in screenwriting. A Los Angeles native, his brand of comedy is satire stemming from the many different personalities and egos he has encountered throughout his life. As a lover of all things comedy, Jared is always working out new material and trying to make those around him laugh. His therapist claims this is a coping mechanism, but what does she know?
Mushrooms and Rabbit Holes: “The Super Mario Bros. Movie” and “Alice in Wonderland”
Ba da dun da dun dah dun! For those of you who can hear the melody in my head, you already know what this blog is about. For those of you who lack ESP skills, we’re talking about the Super Mario movies, yes movies as in two, and how they relate to Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. A bit of back story on why I’m so excited for this blog. I’m going to take you back to the year 2002. My family is packing for a flight to Canada. Little five-year-old me was probably passing time in my room by solving complex equations on string theory as part of my fellowship with Harvard. Well, that day, my mother came into my room with a surprise for me. The surprise was an original Gameboy and two game cartridges. One was a port of a Russian block stacking game but the other was Super Mario Land. The game was already thirteen years old but to little five-year-old me it was the greatest thing I had ever seen. With one flick of the switch, the little green and black screen came to life and I was transported to the Mushroom Kingdom. I could only get to the fourth level before I died but my dad told me tales of a seventh level with spiders that he only reached once. To reach such heights, I knew what I must do, I put down my scientific calculator and told Harvard, “To hell with your fellowship.” From now on the only string theory I was interested in was…I don’t know…I played a lot of video games and now I’m not as smart as I could have been. I still have that same game cart and every now and then I pick it up. The game is only about 45 minutes from start to finish but I still remember the feeling the first time I beat it.
Mario is an instantly recognizable character and there’s good reason for it. When the Nintendo Entertainment System was released, it came with the game Super Mario Bros. It’s synonymous with Nintendo. The games are simple and well-made. Go from left to right and don’t let the enemies touch you. With how popular these Mario games were, it seemed only natural that Hollywood would want to get in on some of the action. In 1993, they did, and people HATED it. But not all people. There was one person who when given a VHS of the Mario movie, sat down and ate it up. That person was me.
Look, I’m aware Super Mario Bros.is not “good” but I was Mario-obsessed and just wanted to see how they would create the Mushroom Kingdom in a movie. I was not expecting the Mushroom Kingdom to be a Blade Runner-esque dystopian society in an alternate universe where instead of primates evolving as the dominant species, it was dinosaurs that evolved into humans. That being said, I accepted it for what it was and locked myself in for the ride. The weird story and setting aside, the casting was sick. The movie starred Bob Hoskins as the titular Mario and John Leguizamo as Luigi and they really looked the part. One short and “rounder” and one tall and skinnier. The person who didn’t look the part was Dennis Hopper, who played the famous antagonist Bowser. While Dennis Hopper is awesome, Bowser was just, like, a guy. Also, I just remembered, Mario is both Mario’s first and last name. So, the Mario brothers’ full names are actually Mario Mario and Luigi Mario.
The movie is pretty much a mess, but apparently, it was even messier during production. John Leguizamo and Bob Hoskins would deal with the troublesome production by drinking between takes. This drinking led to Bob Hoskins breaking his hand. Bob was also stabbed four times, electrocuted, and almost drowned. Needless to say, the movie was considered a failure. Such a failure in fact that Nintendo basically closed its doors to Hollywood for thirty years.
In those thirty years, Hollywood changed, the studios basically stopped making anything original for fear of failure (which in itself is setting themselves up for failure since people are growing bored of remakes) and seems to have cracked the code for adapting popular non-film franchises into films. I’m not too sure how it happened but a Mario movie was green lit by Nintendo. If you don’t know, The Super Mario Bros. Moviewas a massive hit, raking in over 1.3 billion gold coins at the box office. Chris Pratt was the controversial choice for the voice of Mario, Charlie Day voiced Luigi, and the true saving grace of the film, Jack Black, voiced Bowser. Except for Bowser, I did not like this movie. I know I’m a “grown-up” and the movie was “made for kids” but I don’t accept that as an excuse for the surface-level film they put out. One year before, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish came out and that was incredible. That movie was made for kids. So is every Studio Ghibli movie. All are incredibly deep and original kids’ movies, so what’s Mario’s excuse?
Both Mario movies start with the Mario brothers living in New York, doing their normal jobs, and living their normal lives. In both movies, they end up going through some kind of tunnel, a “rabbit hole” if you like, to the Mushroom Kingdom. In the 1993 film, it’s like a portal or something that looks like a rock, and in the 2023 movie, it’s a classic warp pipe from the video game. Regardless of what the method is for their transport to the Mushroom Kingdom, both movies start pretty much the same way as, you guessed it, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. Regarding story similarities, in both Mario movies as well as Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland the protagonists have to learn the “rules” of the wild lands in which they have found themselves and a moment where they use things they learned from their outside world in the current “Wonderland.”
The similarities don’t end there though. Going back to the video games, when Mario gets a red mushroom, he gets bigger. When he gets a purple one, he gets smaller. Seems an awful lot like “Eat Me” and “Drink Me” from Alice in Wonderland. A weird thing both IPs have in common is drugs. Alice has become an unofficial mascot for LSD. People claim the movie perfectly encapsulates an acid trip and while the story does lack a scene of Alice panicking while inside a music festival porta potty, I can see where that argument comes from. Being sucked into a new world, learning how it works, not being at the wheel of the journey, having to roll with the punches. It makes sense. But when LSD is mentioned, its more natural cousin is always right around the corner. I’m of course talking about psilocybin mushrooms. See where I’m going here? Since the beginning of Mario, people have pointed out that a guy eating mushrooms and stepping on monsters sounds a whole lot like a mushroom trip. I do want to point out that talking to someone who played a Mario game for the first time is much better than talking to someone who did mushrooms for the first time because instead of misquoting headlines from internet articles about psilocybin therapy, they will talk about how they defeated Bowser and saved Princess Peach.
From similar beginnings in their stories to similarities in how people perceived them in popular culture, the parallels between Mario and Alice are not hard to see once you know where to look. Like I’ve said in previous articles, if you examine popular franchises across all forms of media, you’ll find that many of them have a lot in common with Lewis Carroll’s Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. Which of course means that, whether they knew it or not, the creators drew inspiration from Alice. It makes sense. Alice was groundbreaking, it changed storytelling forever. This is Alice’s Wonderland and we are just living in it.
Jared Hoffman graduated from the American Film Institute with a degree in screenwriting. A Los Angeles native, his brand of comedy is satire stemming from the many different personalities and egos he has encountered throughout his life. As a lover of all things comedy, Jared is always working out new material and trying to make those around him laugh. His therapist claims this is a coping mechanism, but what does she know?
All Things Alice: Interview with Mark Saltzman
As an amateur scholar and die-hard enthusiast of everything to do with Alice in Wonderland, I have launched a podcast that takes on Alice’s everlasting influence on pop culture. As an author who draws on Lewis Carroll’s iconic masterpiece for my Looking Glass Wars universe, I’m well acquainted with the process of dipping into Wonderland for inspiration.
The journey has brought me into contact with a fantastic community of artists and creators from all walks of life—and this podcast will be the platform where we come together to answer the fascinating question: “What is it about Alice?”
For this episode, it was my great pleasure to have screenwriter and playwright Mark Saltzman join me as my guest! Read on to explore our conversation and check out the whole series on your favorite podcasting platform to listen to the full interview.
Frank Beddor Thanks for being on the show, Mark Saltzman. I was delighted to come across your musical, somebody else who’s been inspired by Alice in Wonderland. It never ceases to amaze me how Alice has become a muse for so many creators. I’m really curious. Why do you think Alice has lasted so long and continues to be reinvented?
Mark Saltzman I have given that a lot of thought. There’s a uniqueness about Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass that nothing’s really eclipsed. There’s a looseness and an irrationality to the original books. I think that could only be from Reverend Dodgson, Caroll’s intimate knowledge of logic, which allowed him to avoid logic. He knew where it would fall. Most children’s stories have a moral and a very clear narrative. A beginning, middle, and end, with a heroine or hero who learns a lesson or something like that. Alice defied all of that. I think it’s because of that uniqueness that nothing else has ever come along in the past 150 years that qualifies in the same way or entices kids when they first read it.
Alice has inspired but really, where is the adaptation of Alice in Wonderland that truly, truly succeeds? The adaptation of The Wizard of Oz absolutely supersedes the original but with Alice, from stage productions to Disney to Tim Burton, they have just avoided the whole story completely. Nobody’s been able to really wrap their arms around this elusive, mysterious piece of work by Lewis Carroll.
FB That’s a really interesting take because you could never teach writing using that book because there is no beginning, middle, or end. You could never write a TV show, a movie, or a play for that matter, because it’s so episodic and there is a randomness to it. But thematically, it’s really interesting and really strong, because it’s asking “Who am I?”
To your point, there is no adaptation that stands out. There are just really good references like The Matrix. The Matrix did an amazing job. Tim Burton threw it out. You focused on parts of real-life Alice, Lewis Carroll’s muse, Alice Liddell. I did the same thing in a different way with The Looking Glass Wars.
Tell us the concept behind your play, Alice, Formally of Wonderland, A Musical Story of the Real Alice. The real Alice inspired Lewis Carroll and met Prince Leopold, Queen Victoria’s youngest son. So you went from there and did this show, which I’m assuming is some sort of romance.
MS Correct. It is a romance. We know there was some sort of relationship, presumably romantic, between Leopold and Alice Liddell and it seemed to have not been chronicled. Out of all the Alice works, somehow that was missed. I just loved this idea. Because for one thing, you knew going in this did not work out. In the Victorian era, if there was a romance, it was not going to end with them skipping down the aisle to be married. “So what did happen?” I wondered. When you’re writing historical fiction, you want to always be plausible and factual as much as you can. From what I learned from my research talking to a Lewis Carroll expert at Oxford, it seemed they did get together. There was proof they had a hunting trip together up the Thames which echoed the original Alice in Wonderland boat trip. In the scene in the musical, I figured Alice would certainly reflect on that. Ten years earlier, she took this boat ride with an Oxford don, Lewis Carroll. Within those 10 years, she became this famous figure as the muse of the Wonderland books and now she’s on the boat with Prince Leopold. It also made me think, “Who is this young woman who thinks she is worthy of a prince?” She’s an Oxford professor’s daughter who, for all we know, had never been to London.
Then I started thinking about her character, being this beautiful young woman, one of the few young women in an all-boys school, and the daughter of a professor. I felt it doesn’t give you the impression of a modest, humble, young lady. I thought, “That would be a fun character to write.” Then I started looking at Leopold the same way. What could he have been like? Here’s a prince royal and he wants to go to Oxford, he wants to be educated. He’s not a Playboy Prince. They seem like they really would be interested in each other. Then, what would destroy this? Of course, Victorian society, not to mention Mom.
FB She had a little bit of power back then.
MS She did and she didn’t seem to use it for good very often.
FB Indeed she did not.
MS She’s held in such high esteem, the beloved Queen Victoria. As England was becoming more and more woke and Oxford was trying to redo its past and take down statues of Cecil Rhodes and similar benefactors, Queen Victoria remained untouched. Here she is, the epitome of British imperialism. Who represents it more? I asked an English friend, “Why does she get a free pass? Why aren’t they taking down statues and renaming streets?” He said, “Well, she’s Queen Victoria.”
FB I got a little criticism for portraying her as a baddie, along the lines of comparing her to Redd as if they were doppelgangers. People said, “We really love our Queen Victoria so you’re gonna rub some people the wrong way.”
MS I could see loving Prince Albert, her husband. The more I read about him and his policies, which were much more progressive, I wonder if the history of the 20th century would have been different had he lived. He was kind of skeptical of the future of colonialism. Charles Dickens is writing here in this era. How much more blatant could the social ills of England be than in Dickens? Did she open a book? Did somebody mention workhouses and child labor to her? It seemed like all of England was aware of it because of Dickens and others. People were so riveted to his work, other than Her Majesty. It’s hard to even picture those two in the same room.
FB I’m with you. I’ve been playing around with it a little bit more in adapting my book series into a TV show. I didn’t focus very much on the part of her story that you’re focused on. But then when I started to work on the show, I thought, “Oh, let me see. What was she like as a teenager?” I jumped from her at 13 to her at 20 and then I brought her back to Wonderland, not dissimilar to what Tim Burton did, I suppose. But I was wondering what was going on in English society at that time. What was going on with Queen Victoria? What is something that would make Alice feel a bit more modern? I did quite a bit of research and came to the same conclusion. They’re really giving her a pass. So, you have a scene on the River Thames with Leopold and Alice?
MS Yes, that’s maybe the one thing I can say is absolutely factual. They did take that boat trip.
FB That’s very romantic and very intimate.
MS What do they talk about? That’s what it comes down to. Once again, you want to make it plausible but still a little surprising. I imagined she would have spoken about the golden afternoon, being on the river with Lewis Carroll. I imagined he would have asked, “What was it like that day?”
FB Do they have a perspective on the books in your musical? Alice is famous because of the book but does Leopold have a take on it that might reflect your take on Alice in Wonderland?
MS Her first take is she loves what it did for her. She loves the fame and she loves the social position. Her dad does not. He thinks it’s too much attention and it’s gone to her head. Leopold is so enchanted with Alice herself. He wants to know if the girl in the book is like Alice the real girl. It’s more about the young woman than the literature. But the book gets him curious. She says, “Really none at all. The fictional Alice is in a strange and dangerous land. She never thinks about her family, sister, or parents. She doesn’t even miss them. If that happened to me, I would just be destroyed.” She’d be Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz. This doesn’t cross the fictional Alice’s mind. The girl in the book has a strange emotionality.
That’s another reason why the book is sort of unadaptable. The central character is essentially passive. She’s just taking it in, like a camera, and isn’t motivated to get from one place to the other. In Through the Looking-Glass, there’s a mission, but in the original, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, she’s wandering. Alice happens to make it home but she’s in no real rush to get there. She seems happy to be away from her family. Leopold says, “She must have had a mother like me.” That’s their exchange. He’s also a little interested in Dodgson and what he was like. Through my research into Dodgson, it seems like he was quite the entrepreneur.
FB He was way ahead of his time in terms of being in control of everything surrounding his work. He picked the artist, the print style, and even the font. I think he might have been the first author to come up with merchandise for a book.
MS How come we don’t talk about him the way we’re talking about Walt Disney or any other entertainment industry titan? We like to put him in a garret.
FB It’s a very good question. L. Frank Baum. We all know his story.
MS Dodgson was maybe the wealthiest don teaching at Oxford. They don’t get paid a lot.
FB He was one of the first people to explore photography. He was very ahead of his time in a lot of ways. But he was never married. He was entrepreneurial but he didn’t seem to go out of his way to promote himself, even though he wrote endless letters to all of his friends.
MS He did go out of his way but it was to promote Lewis Carroll, not himself. The characters were on plates and tea towels. There was always an Alice show somewhere. Not to mention, Through the Looking-Glass is an actual sequel. What did he do with his money?
FB That’s a good question.
MS Why don’t we know that? I feel like there’s some English social taboo around this.
FB I don’t understand why Charles Dodgson is not recognizable and why you have to say Lewis Carroll right afterward. But to my point, he didn’t want any recognition. That’s why he had that name he worked on. He came up with a bunch of ideas and it’s some kind of anagram. It creates space between him and the work.
MS But, you can be pretty sure the bank accounts were in the name of Charles Dodgson. But that’s what makes me curious. This aspect of him is just ignored. It’s like writing about Walt Disney and saying, “Look at how beautifully he drew,” and that’s the end of it. You’re missing the whole point of building an empire and the “Alice Empire” is still with us.
The Dodgson estate isn’t making anything off it. But just as a thought experiment, if Alice wasn’t in the public domain, how much would his estate be taking in from the licensing of Alice projects around the world?
FB It’d probably be hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars but, of course, it wouldn’t have been so successful if it hadn’t been in the public domain. It wouldn’t have been successful because it was so episodic. But once it was in the public domain, then you’re just riffing off of it. But nevertheless, it’s still remarkable. No matter what medium you think about, Alice is everywhere.
I think the idea you put forth is right and I also think a lot of people can see what they want to see. Some people see it as a fairy tale, as it’s described, while some people see it as a horror story. I think it was written for adults on some level. They didn’t have all the categories we do now – Children’s, Middle Grade, Young Adult.
MS This really wasn’t meant for a huge popular reading public given the satire and references to local Oxford residents. It was meant for the Liddell girls and their family.
FB Your show, Alice, Formerly of Wonderland, is in Santa Barbara but it originated in Wyoming, correct?
MS I used to be affiliated with the Wyoming Theater Festival and when the show was in the workshop stage, I brought it there to put it in front of an audience and see what I had. It was a very skeletal version but I needed to put it on stage because the musical element is acapella singing. Leopold was musical and joined musical groups at Oxford and I love musical theater. I thought, “How am I going to make this musical? I didn’t want to do a traditional musical, it would seem like just another Alice musical. I thought, “I can use the Oxford Glee Club as a musical motif through it and Leopold would sing with them. I used some traditional British folk songs, Victorian parlor songs, and standard historical Oxford songs, and I wrote a couple of new ones. With six actors, it wasn’t easy to get that big glee club sound but our music arranger, Jack Woodson, is so brilliant. He managed to make it sound like a big chorus. We were very pleased with the musical sound of it and that people consider it a musical even though it’s very unorthodox.
FB The glee club is a great idea. I didn’t realize Prince Leopold was in the glee club. That’s just a natural fit and using music of the time is appropriate. Plus, you don’t have to deal with the rights.
MS We used the public domain songs and my own because, as you know, music licensing is one of the most unbearable aspects of making good art.
FB When you say you’re putting your show up, this is at the Wyoming Theater Festival so it’s public and people are coming to see it, but it’s rough. What’s in it for the audience? Do they participate? Do they give notes?
MS Generally, I talk with the audience and find out what they think. But I found at that point, at the end of the show, I already knew the audience’s reaction. If there’s a joke and the audience doesn’t laugh, you don’t have to ask them. You just bury your head in your hands and now you have to fix it. But you can’t find that out sitting in your office at the computer. You really have to have actors.
This show has not had a typical development. We were in Wyoming then I went home and did rewrites and then COVID came. As soon as COVID started to abate, I did another reading here in Studio City at the Whitefire Theater. It’s a black box and I use that for my local experiments. We went in there with a bunch of actors and some UCLA a capella guys. Then I did one more when COVID was basically done. That one I actually solved the problems and then submitted it around and it found its way to Santa Barbara.
FB How are people responding to the music?
MS They seem very surprised. Even though we made no secret that it’s a musical, it’s a capella. I don’t think that’s really processed until you’re in the room. Such exciting things have happened because it’s a tightrope act. I didn’t see any loss of attention during the numbers. In fact, there’s more leaning forward because it’s such an act of derring-do to sing this much a capella. We had terrific actors who all had a capella experience and knew how to adjust if you feel yourself going off. There’s so much nuance involved and so much concentration. Sometimes they even had to dance while they were doing it while with glee, they rarely had to do it. So it was a surprising and pretty unique element.
FB It’s a romantic comedy so when you’re fine-tuning, you’re making sure you’re putting those buttons on the jokes. Having seen it now, were people laughing where you needed them to laugh?
MS At this point, all the bad jokes are gone. We also had two previews before opening night. Fortunately, most of the clunkers had been weeded out by then. I am going back up to see it next weekend and from what I hear, as the actors have been relaxing into it more laughs emerge because I think they feel free enough to explore and try different readings. “I’m going to try to get a bigger laugh on this so I’ll hit that word harder. I’ll look right at the audience on this word.” They make these discoveries as they realize how to play this particular kind of comedy.
I tried to do that in the English drawing room style. You can’t do an Alice story without a tea party. Alice is trapped by her father into having tea with the young Oxford man he has chosen for her. Alice is already in love with Leopold so it’s awkward, to say the least. I did that in a drawing room style and the actors got it to go into a different gear. Some of it’s pretty broad. I figured one Wonderland character oughta have an appearance and I made that the Caterpillar. He really was the only one with actual useful advice in the novel. Other people were saying the most insane things to Alice but the Caterpillar really was helpful in his haughty way. I thought in her mind Alice, if she needed advice, could imagine herself going to the Caterpillar as a thought experiment. We have Matthew Greenwood, a British actor playing the Caterpillar and doing it in the style of one of the knighted-grade actors.
FB What are the conflicts with Alice? You brought up Queen Victoria. That’s pretty clear. Are there other conflicts these two lovers are dealing with?
MS They both have parental conflicts. One of the things that’s also factual is that Queen Victoria was not a fan of Leopold’s desire to go to Oxford. It could have exposed him socially to the “wrong family”. There’s a very funny scene on stage, but it actually happened. There was a negotiation between Leopold and his mother as to how he would live there. Certainly not in student housing, God forbid. He would have to be in a rented house. There was a discussion about who needed to be on the staff. Would there be a doctor in residence? Talk about control over-controlling mothers.
FB The ultimate helicopter parents.
MS Queen Victoria demanded if Leopold had a dinner, she would have to approve the menu and the guests.
FB It was her youngest son. I think he was the fourth-in-line to the throne. So he probably knew he had no chance for the throne and the youngest are usually a little bit more rebellious. He had some health issues as well.
MS That’s what made Queen Victoria feel it was valid to have 24-hour medical observation, but Leopold was having none of that. Alice has a conflict with her father, who wants to see her happily married but knows when he finds out about her relationship with Prince Leopold it just can not be. Alice’s father has the cream of England right outside his window, these Oxford guys, and he picked one especially for her, Edward Brocket. This is an invented character but I’m sure there were many such men. I made him the captain of the Christ Church rowing team and a medical student, a perfect guy.
FB Tall, strapping, big shoulders. Okay, I got it.
MS Exactly. Played by tall, strapping Sawyer Patterson. When he walked into the audition I went, “Well, there it is.” As Leopold says, ruefully, Brocket is healthy. Leopold backs off and says, “Go with the healthy personnel and have a long life.” Alice is too insanely in love at that point. But Brocket isn’t a big dumb jock or a hostile Gaston. He’s a good guy and he’s exactly who she should have had. One of the reasons I made him a jock was eventually the real Alice Liddell married a professional athlete, a cricket player. That probably was on her radar. She married a famous man. She didn’t marry the country doctor.
FB That was Reginald Hargreaves.
MS I think she still wanted to maintain her position. She married someone famous in some way so she wouldn’t suddenly fade from sight because she married an obscure, even wealthy, son of an Earl from Northumberland or something. I don’t think she was married for money. I’m sure she loved him but it was good for her public image. A famous athlete was certainly an attraction.
FB I made the connection between Leopold and Alice having a love story. That was real because they both named their first child after each other. She had a boy she named Leopold and Prince Leopold named his daughter Alice. So I thought, “Okay, that’s enough of a connection. There must have been something there. I’m gonna go with that.”
MS When I got to that in my research I thought, “The universe just handed me the end of the play.”
FB Is that the end of the play?
MS The Caterpillar is a kind of wrap-around character. He gives that information and there’s occasionally a little gasp in the audience. It hammers home the truth.
FB Beautiful. Very exciting. How long is it running?
MS This is the last week. June 16th is the last show.
FB What’s the hope for the next steps?
MS It’s six actors and off-Broadway sized. My last show in New York, Romeo and Bernadette, was off-Broadway. It was in a nice little theater on 42nd Street. I’d like to have Alice, Formerly of Wonderland follow that trajectory to Off-Broadway in New York.
FB Fingers crossed.
What was your introduction to Alice in Wonderland? Did you read it as a child or was it the Disney movie?
MS I think I read it before the Disney movie. I was a big reader. Reading the initial books, I don’t think was that life-changing because you’re reading everything. I remember gravitating to English children’s books like Winnie the Pooh when I was really little. But when I was a little older, I found The Annotated Alice, which I’m sure you know. That was a rabbit hole I dove into. I talked to fellow English major nerds about this and it turns out, for a lot of us, that was the first literary criticism we ever encountered. It was the first time we recognized there’s more to a book than we may have imagined. It was so easily readable and digestible. Martin Gardner did the notes in the margins.
FB I thought it was brilliant. I think everybody should read it, even if you don’t care about knowing everything about Alice, because to your point, it’s so consumable and digestible.
MS It gives you the goods. It’s not holding back. Rather than reading a magazine article about literary criticism, The Annotated Alice was in these teaspoon-sized bits to take in and be fascinated by. In some way, that put me on a path towards being an English major in college. That book said, “There’s more than you imagined here. Let us explain.”
FB Have you thought about your play as a show or movie?
MS I have but if it’s not Merchant Ivory making it I’m not sure I’m interested. The depiction of the Victorian period has to be so beautiful. I don’t know if that’s a Netflix movie. What else are we gonna have?
FB They don’t make movies like that anymore. Barely any movies at all.
MS I don’t really see how it could find its way into the media universe that way. I wish but we just don’t live in that world. Maybe there’s some English film company. But first, I want to move it down the theatrical path.
FB Your other show, Romeo and Bernadette, what was that about?
MS That was another fantasy, exploiting an English author.
FB Wonder why they hate us American authors.
MS We try so hard. Romeo and Bernadette started as a movie script that never got made. It’s essentially, at the end of Romeo and Juliet Romeo doesn’t drink the poison. He drinks more of Juliet’s sleeping potion and that puts him out. He wakes up hundreds of years later and finds a girl who looks a lot like Juliet but she’s an Italian-American girl in Verona on a family vacation. Romeo follows her back to Brooklyn and finds out she’s the daughter of a mafia don. He gets involved with the wrong mafia family and the whole thing starts again, except they’re happy. It was knocking around, including with some British companies for a movie and it didn’t happen. Everybody said to me how good it was and how funny it was. So I made it into a little musical, nine actors, and we played New York with really nice reviews.
FB That sounds like a great idea.
MS We’re mixing the cast album right now.
FB Are you musical yourself?
MS I am. I always say this, coming out of college I had an Ivy League English degree and the ability to play piano. What was gonna get me work? I started playing piano in New York for auditions and bars, got my feet on the ground, and started writing. On occasion, I’d work on a show like Sesame Street where I could also write songs in addition to the script writing and Alice has two songs that I wrote. So I tried to keep a toe in the musical world, too. I really love it and listen to a lot of music every day.
FB When you were writing on Sesame Street did you just suggest some music or did they ask you if you could write a song? Or was that just part of a song that you put into a script?
MS I think one of the reasons they hired me in the first place was because they knew I was musical. I was writing songs and sketches for off-Broadway reviews. A Sesame Street actor was in one of them and she brought me over there and said, “He’s gonna write for me now. When you were writing a script, often the writers were the lyricists. For Sesame Street, every sketch has to teach something. So if you want to teach that it’s good to try new foods, you might do that in the form of a song or you might do an informative sketch. On occasion, I would be paired with a composer but other times a tune was hidden in my head and I would just submit it. Sometimes they’d take it, sometimes they rejected the music and passed it along. But it was a rare opportunity to be writing songs while writing television scripts.
FB It sounds like a great experience and a great gig.
MS It was. It was exhausting though. It was the hardest scriptwriting I’ve ever done. It had to appeal to preschoolers. It had to appeal to adults. It couldn’t be lame. It had to teach something and it had to be funny. That’s a lot in a little sketch.
FB So you’re saying it’s difficult to put all that into a little sketch? Or were the powers that be demanding these things have to all work together? Were they difficult or was it just the actual writing and creating that made all those elements gel?
MS Everyone agreed this was the Sesame Street formula. This is what made Sesame Street, the notion that the humor was not going to be lame. It was going to be sharp humor, like any sketch comedy show. If you think about it, if you’re writing for Saturday Night Live or any other comedy sketch, it just has to be funny. But with Sesame Street you have to do all those things at once in every single sketch. They’d be tested on kids to see if the sketches actually did teach them. In my time the head writer was focused on television comedy, not education, but over your shoulder was the Harvard School of Education saying, “That’s not teaching.” Also remember, this is public television so the wages aren’t going to be like the compensation at a network. So if you’re a good comedy writer, what are you doing here at PBS? It was tough to find the right kind of writer and keep them. But if you didn’t get paid in wages, you got paid in Emmy Awards.
MS That’s a TV musical musical with songs by Jerry Herman (Hello, Dolly!) and starring Angela Lansbury. It still seems to be a perennial online. I used to get contacted about people enjoying it. We gave it a progressive slant. I still can’t believe we got away with that. Mrs. Claus comes to New York in 1910 and she gets involved with the women’s suffrage movement, child labor, and unions. The feminists love us for it. It’s an easy way to teach how difficult it was to vote and how to organize around that. I’m pretty proud of that one. I’m glad it’s been living on.
FB Do you see many Broadway shows? Anything you’re a fan of that you wish you had written?
MS When I get to New York there’s never enough time. The last thing I saw was a production of Sondheim’s show Merrily We Roll Along. I had tremendous affection for it when I was young. It first opened in the eighties and finally, people are making it work and it’s a hit now with Daniel Radcliffe. I love that. I also saw Sondheim’s new posthumous show, Here We Are. To be involved in musical theater at all is to be worshiping at the feet of Sondheim. Whatever might be playing of his, I’ll make a special effort to go see.
FB Do people come to you about writing a book for an idea? Or do you generate most of your ideas and work on those?
MS It works both ways. I’m trying to think what people in theater have come to me for that has actually been produced. There’s so much of it. If I’m doing it myself, I have my steps. I know what to do but it can be very painstaking and slow and I’m not sure collaborators can put up with that. People do come to me and I’d say fifty percent of the projects I want to work on and fifty percent I don’t, whether it’s because I’ve done something like that before or I just don’t see how it’s ever gonna get done. But it’s always flattering when someone comes to you and invites you to work with them. But I would say the shows I’ve had produced have all been originated by me.
FB Theater is much like film or television. There are a lot of plays or musicals being developed that we never get to see because it’s really difficult to get them up on their feet and for all the elements to come together. One of the things that’s really underrated is the book writer. To get that book right to make a musical work is really hard.
MS It’s no different from screenwriting or TV writing. It’s the same skills. you know, playing songs. But if you find yourself with those skills at an early age, wouldn’t you jump into TV? I did. I needed to make a living,
FB They don’t pay very much in theater.
MS As they say, “You can make a killing but you can’t make a living.”
FB So if you’ve done Wicked, you’re good.
MS Pretty much. But there’s only one or two shows like that per decade. Yet there are so many other positives about it. But if you’re starting out and you do need the paycheck, you really can’t do theater. The payoff is after opening unless you were lucky enough to be commissioned, which you won’t be at an early age. You could be working for years on a project and then get to opening night and hope for the best that maybe now you’ll get paid. Whereas, in TV and film there is a union, of which I’m a proud member, and the union makes sure, like any union, that you get paid at a specific pay rate. On the other hand, you’re selling your copyright. Whereas you own the copyright in theater and you have the final word on casting and the script. That’s all up to the playwright.
FB It’s the same with the novelists. Part of my interest in writing was born out of losing copyright and being frustrated and saying, “I’d like to be the author from beginning to end and play in my own sandbox.” Not that those always pay enough to pay the bills and so forth. But creatively, It’s so fulfilling.
MS That’s it. There are other rewards. The union jobs for money, the theater, and novel jobs for us.
FB If you were a character from Alice in Wonderland who would you be and why?
MS The Annotated Alice is still in my head but it’s the White Knight. There’s inventiveness and kindliness about him. The Caterpillar was helpful but had that horrible attitude, which I exploited.
FB And he’s stoned a lot.
MS If only. To me, it would take that horrible haughty Oxford edge off him. He seems to me, and I wrote him this way, as the most Oxfordian of any of the characters in Alice in Wonderland. That attitude of “Who are you?” That superiority is so absurd. Whereupon the White Knight is humble and kind but completely inept and not helpful at all. But at least she didn’t end up in an ocean of saltwater or having your head stretched. At least he was kind. I think that the Caterpillar’s attitude is coming over decades from The Annotated Alice. It was pointed out there and I never forgot about it. I also remember there was speculation that the White Knight was the Lewis Carroll self-portrait because you can’t imagine him as any of the other characters. The White Knight is slightly ridiculous and that might be how Dodgson felt with his speech impediment, that he was a figure of ridicule. He probably was ridiculed because of the way kids talk about their teachers.
FB Riding in on the horse also puts him above everybody so that’s got to feel good.
MS It’s a quiet episode compared to beheadings and croquet. That was always a place in the books where I felt at home.
FB Very good answer. I read in an interview, that somebody asked you if you were an expert on Alice in Wonderland or Lewis Carroll and you said you weren’t an expert, but you did so much research. I did the same thing. I went to Oxford and spent six months there and it was so much fun.
MS This is the one place where the show expresses anything I felt, but Prince Leopold has a speech where he says, “Oxford is Wonderland.” That’s how I felt. I’ve been to places in Europe before and nothing was ever like Oxford to me. I just can’t compare it to any other place I’ve been. I would love to spend months there.
FB I’ve always been a big fan. I love the British Museum and then being in Oxford it does feel like its own Wonderland. There are Wonderland Gardens that look like they are from Oxford. I didn’t even realize there were so many people who create Wonderland hedges out of characters.
It’s been a real pleasure speaking with you, Mark. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast.
10 Best “Alice in Wonderland” References in “The Simpsons”
It’s been said often, and a lot on this site, Alice’s Adventures in Wonderlandis a titan of pop culture. It has left an indelible mark on our language, art, music, and more. So it’s no surprise that Alice and the denizens of Wonderland have been frequently referenced in another piece of pop culture royalty, The Simpsons. For thirty-five (no, that’s not a typo) seasons, Springfield’s first family has been a cornerstone of comedy. The show often features heart-warming explorations of family conflict and brilliant character work, providing the foundation for a rapid-fire succession of pinpoint pop culture references, gentle satire of American life, and delightful silliness. The writers also seem to have some form of clairvoyance, with the show becoming well-known for foreshadowing a variety of future events, including video chat, the Fox-Disney sale, and a certain angry orange-tinted man becoming president.
Much like Alice, The Simpsons isn’t just part of culture, it is culture. It was a phenomenon upon its release. It redefined what was previously thought possible to achieve in its format. The show gave birth to numerous spin-offs including comic books, video games, theme park rides, and a Golden Globe-nominated film. Its influence is felt in language, internet culture, and how we think about the world. The Simpsons and one of the Alice adaptations even share a composer. Legendary composer Danny Elfman created the iconic Simpsons theme song as well as the score for Tim Burton’s two Alice in Wonderland films. Three stars of the Burton Wonderverse have also visited Springfield – Sacha Baron Cohen, Stephen Fry, and Anne Hathaway, who apparently had such a great time she guest-starred in three episodes.
These two masterpieces of Western art have also shared the stage directly. The Simpsons’ penchant for copious pop culture references and Alice’s societal ubiquity has resulted in a litany of allusions to Wonderland. Here are ten of our favorites:
10. Lisa Down the Rabbit Hole
A classic Alice in Wonderland reference comes in at number ten. The Simpsons’ Treehouse of Horrorepisodes are almost as iconic as the show itself. For “Treehouse of Horror XXIV”, part of season twenty-five, Guillermo del Toro took the helm of the opening. Del Toro packs an almost overwhelming amount of horror and sci-fi references in his three-minute segment including Alfred Hitchcock, The Shining, and Mr. Burns as the Pale Man from Del Toro’s Pan’s Labyrinth.
The opening follows the Simpson brood as they fight and flee a never-ending wave of horror and sci-fi monsters until they reach the safety of their trusty couch. Or so it seems. Suddenly, Lisa falls through a hole in the couch. Clad in a blue and white dress, she falls past tea sets, a clock, and playing cards before landing on a mushroom. Alice falling down the rabbit hole is a common reference and it is the last thing the audience suspects when the Simpson family sits on the couch. Its use does seemingly emphasize darker interpretations of Alice in Wonderland, aligning Lewis Carroll’s novel with iconic horror franchises. It’s also important to note that Lisa shares a lot of similarities with Alice, a young girl trying to find herself in an often topsy-turvy and infuriating world.
9. “We’re Through the Looking Glass Here, People”
Milhouse Mussolini Van Houten, Bart’s hapless sidekick, is one of The Simpsons writers’ favorite punching bags. He’s run over by a train, has the skin polished off his head, gets dropped by his psychiatrist for being too annoying, finds himself on the FBI’s Most Wanted List, and when Bart is asked why he and Milhouse are friends, Bart response is “geographical convenience”. Ouch. However, the writers have given Milhouse some classic lines, like in the wonderfully titled “Grampa vs. Sexual Inadequacy”.
The children of Springfield get suspicious when their parents suddenly start going to bed early. Bart convenes an emergency meeting in his treehouse and the kids come up with a theory. Milhouse explains how the RAND Corporation, the saucer people, and the reverse vampires have conspired to force their parents to go to bed early in a plot to eliminate dinner. Milhouse finishes his summation with the declaration, “We’re through the looking glass here, people.” The expression is used when someone finds themselves in a bizarre situation and it’s utilized perfectly here. Unfortunately for Milhouse and Co., their grand theory is completely wrong. It turns out the parents of Springfield have collectively rediscovered their mojos after drinking a libidinous toxic concocted by Grampa Simpson.
8. Lisa Down the Rabbit Hole…Again
Guillermo del Toro wasn’t the first to throw Lisa Simpson down a rabbit hole. That distinction belongs to Simpsons maven and King of the Hill and The Office creator Greg Daniels, writer of the season six classic “Lisa’s Wedding”. The episode opens with the Simpsons at a Renaissance fair where Lisa wanders off after being embarrassed by Homer. She enters Friar Wiggum’s Fantastical Beastarium where she encounters the mythical Esquilax, which is just a rabbit. The rabbit runs off and Lisa follows it, a la Alice and the White Rabbit. The rabbit leads her to a fortune teller where she is told the story of her first love. Alice following the White Rabbit down the rabbit hole signifies a character following their curiosity and being thrust into a strange land. For Lisa, that curiosity leads her to 2010, where, as a college student, she falls in love with the posh and arrogant Hugh Parkfield. They soon get engaged and travel to Springfield for the wedding where Hugh insults her family due to their boorish ways. Lisa realizes how deeply she loves her family and breaks up with Hugh. It’s a journey of self-discovery perfectly suited to an Alice in Wonderland reference.
7. “You May Remember Me From…”
“To Alcohol! The Cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems.” There are few things Homer Simpson loves more than a nice, cold Duff (or Fudd). So it’s not surprising when he skips work to tour the Duff Brewery with Barney in “Duffless”. The shocker is that Homer drinks responsibly on the tour. Barney, on the other hand, is on a mission to drain the brewery dry and almost succeeds. He’s so hammered Homer refuses to let him drive and takes the keys himself, another uncharacteristically responsible decision. But after being pulled over by Chief Wiggum, Homer fails a breathalyzer test and is sent to traffic school as part of his D.U.I. punishment. At traffic school, he watches a video presented by Hollywood has-been, future husband of Selma, and noted fish romancer Troy McClure (voiced by the legendary Phil Hartman). In the intro to the video, McClure mentions his other driver-ed credits include “Alice’s Adventures Through the Windshield Glass”. This macabre joke has no deep meaning or connection to anything in the narrative. It’s simply funny. A joke thousands of comedy writers would include in their portfolio but on The Simpsons, it’s a throwaway line. The joke was reworked thirty years later for the title of the season thirty-four episode “Homer’s Adventures Through the Windshield Glass.”
6. Milhouse the Cat
Another Milhouse moment comes in at number six. Town pride is at stake in “Lemon of Troy” when a gang of ruffians from Shelbyville steal Springfield’s beloved lemon tree. Why does Springfield care so much about a lemon tree? According to Grampa Simpson, the tree was planted in the ground upon which Jebediah Springfield and Shelbyville Manhattan first settled. Yet after a disagreement about cousin marriage (Springfield was against it, Shelbyville for it), they split and founded their own towns.
The kids track the tree to a Shelbyville impound lot. Bart decides to lead a raid into Shelbyville where they’ll recover the tree or “choke their rivers with our dead!” While prepping, Milhouse finds camouflage gear in his room and imagines a scenario in which Shelbyvillians are chasing him. Because of his camouflage, he’s able to disappear in a clump of bushes. He then taunts the befuddled bullies, who can only see his glasses and smile in the leaves, reminiscent of the Cheshire Cat. It’s a perfectly crafted reference to Alice in Wonderland that directly ties into a deeper level of Milhouse’s psyche. Bart’s sidekick is often powerless and under emotional or physical attack. It makes sense he would fantasize about having power over others, one step ahead of the bullies who so often terrorize him.
And what happened to the tree you may ask? Well, the Springfield expedition force, now including Homer and some of the other dads, steals back their lemon tree using Flanders’ RV as a Trojan Horse to infiltrate the impound lot. Some stories do have a happy ending.
5. Moe Gets a Date
Poor Moe. The pathetic proprietor of Springfield’s favorite dive is constantly rejected by life. But sometimes, The Simpsons’ writers take pity on the pugnacious publican and give him some happiness. “Eeny Teeny Maya Moe” begins with Homer and Maggie going to Moe’s Tavern (he’s trying to be a better father). He and the other barflys are shocked to discover that Moe, their Moe, actually has a date. Moe relates how he met a woman named Maya online. He reluctantly sent her a picture of himself and she thought he was cute, prompting him to exclaim – “O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
This, of course, is a reference to Lewis Carroll’s poem “Jabberwocky” from Through the Looking-Glass, in which the narrator rejoices at vanquishing the feared Jabberwock. “Frabjous,” “Callooh,” and “Callay” were invented by Carroll and wholly capture the feeling of elation. They’re perfect words to encapsulate Moe’s joy, as he is seldom found attractive. Their use in this episode is actually a reference to a moment in season thirteen when Mr. Burns exclaims “O frabjous day!” after scoring a date with a policewoman, creating Inception-likepop culture references.
Moe’s rapture continues as he falls in love with Maya. However, Moe has one problem, himself. Maya is a little person and Moe can’t stop himself from making tactless jokes about her height. Maya eventually breaks up with Moe, leaving him heartbroken. But all is not lost. Moe and Maya reconnect in season thirty-three and she accepts his proposal. O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
4. Krusty the Ventriloquist
Krusty the Clown is one of show business’ great survivors. The hard-drinking, hard-gambling TV comedian has weathered lawsuits over his hazardous merchandise, a revolt at his children’s camp, and a vengeful former sidekick to maintain his status as the idol of Springfield’s children, especially Bart. But Krusty’s empire is threatened with extinction in “Krusty Gets Kancelled” when a new ventriloquist act, Gabbo, takes Springfield by storm. Krusty tries to fight back with his own ventriloquist act, appearing on his show with a dilapidated dummy and asking it, “Why is a raven like a writing desk?” This is a reference to the confounding riddle the Mad Hatter asks Alice during the tea party in Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. The Simpsons shares Lewis Carroll’s love of the absurd, the surreal, and the silly, so it’s fitting the show’s iconic children’s entertainer would reference a work that redefined how children are entertained.
Krusty’s plan backfires when the dummy falls apart in his lap, horrifying the children in the audience. Krusty is canceled. He sinks into depression but the ever-loyal Bart and Lisa help Krusty resurrect his career. They get Gabbo canceled by recording him insulting his fans and engineer a comeback special featuring Bette Midler, Johnny Carson, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Luke Perry (Krusty’s “worthless half-brother”). Krusty is back on top and bigger than ever.
3. Selma’s Child
Selma Bouvier, one of Marge’s cantankerous older sisters, is yet another Springfieldian who has been hopelessly unlucky in love. She has been married to Sideshow Bob, Lionel Hutz, Troy McClure, Disco Stu, Grampa Simpson, and Fat Tony’s cousin, Fit-Fat Tony. She has also dated Hans Moleman, Moe Szyslak, and Barney Gumble. She needs some help when it comes to relationships.
In “Selma’s Choice,” Selma has an existential crisis when her aunt Gladys dies and leaves a video will in which Gladys urges Selma and her twin sister Patty not to die alone without a husband and children. Selma becomes obsessed with having a baby. She tries a host of options – video dating, a love potion, artificial insemination, and a mail-order husband. But video dating goes nowhere, the love potion is a fake, Barney is the fertility clinic’s top donor, and her mail-order husband turns out to be a cardboard cut-out. Marge takes pity on her depressed sister and suggests she take Bart and Lisa to the Duff Gardens amusement park to give her a sense of being a parent. Selma’s afternoon with the kids goes horribly (Bart gets arrested, Lisa gets drugged by toxic water) and Selma realizes she’s totally not ready for a child. She decides to adopt her late aunt’s Iguana, Jub-Jub and sweetly serenades him with “(You Make Me Feel Like) A Natural Woman” as the episode ends.
Jub-Jub the iguana, named by Conan O’Brien during his tenure as a staff writer, is a reference to the dangerous bird-like creature Lewis Carroll created for “Jabberwocky”. Its voice is “shrill and high” and it is “desperate,” living in “perpetual passion.” It’s unknown if O’Brien was consciously making an Alice reference when he named Jub-Jub. But Selma is desperate and in perpetual passion, evidenced by her scattershot approach to dating. She is often seen as ugly and unlovable. It’s poignant that the being who makes Selma feel loved and seen is named after a creature who exhibits so many of the qualities that made Selma feel alone in the first place.
2. Moe the Babysitter
Curiously, many of the Alice in Wonderland references in this list are associated with frequently depressed, downtrodden characters searching for meaning in their life. Maybe the writers tried to give their distressed creation a little bit of levity. Maybe it’s a commentary on how Alice is an archetype for a journey of self-discovery. Maybe it’s a coincidence. Whatever the reason for this link, it holds true in “Moe Baby Blues,” in which our old friend Moe Szyslak unexpectedly bonds with Maggie after saving her from falling off a bridge.
Moe quickly becomes Maggie’s babysitter. In one scene, Moe puts Maggie to bed and she gives him a copy of Alice in Wonderland to read to her. Moe cracks the book, assuming it’s related to “that Alice in Underpants movie I saw,” and quickly becomes horrified. “White rabbit, chicks poppin’ mushrooms, this is like the Playboy Mansion!” Moe tosses the book and tells Maggie a more suitable children’s tale, The Godfather (and Godfather II), which she loves because she’s a baby of taste. The interpretation of Alice’s journey as twisted and dark is common. Moe’s review of Alice ties into a revisionist reading of Lewis Carroll’s novel which highlights its surreal aspects as evidence of drug use and debauchery. Here, The Simpsons isn’t just referencing Alice, but the theories surrounding the book that are prevalent in modern pop culture.
Moe eventually submarines his relationship with Maggie by being himself, his desperation for human connection leading him to be overbearing and just plain weird. But Moe redeems himself by saving Maggie again, this time from a mob war (long story). His impassioned plea to the belligerent gangsters about how his relationship with Maggie brought meaning to his life brings tears to their eyes, prompting Fat Tony to say “I haven’t cried like this since I paid to see Godfather III.” Same here, Fat Tony, same here.
1. Lisa in the Library
We begin with Lisa, we end with Lisa. Alice’s avatar in The Simpsons undertakes one of her many journeys of self-discovery in “Summer of 4 Ft. 2”. It’s the end of the school year and everyone is excited except for Lisa, who can’t find anyone to sign her yearbook. The Simpsons go on a surprise vacation when Flanders lets them use his beach house while he’s on jury duty. The Simpsons, and Milhouse, head to Little Pwagmattasquarmsettport (probably in New England), “America’s Scrod Basket”, where Lisa resolves to shed her nerdy shell and become “cool”. She makes friends with some cool locals and, to her delight, they accept her.
The Alice reference comes when Lisa meets her new friends. She’s walking to the town library when she spots them skateboarding outside. Torn between going into the library or introducing herself to the skaters, Lisa imagines a host of fictional characters urging her to join them in the library. Alice and the Mad Hatter appear and Alice asks her to join their tea party before suddenly warning her, “It’s a trap!” as the Mad Hatter holds Alice at gunpoint. There may be something deeper at work. A reference to Alice’s fear and confusion at being stuck in Wonderland, perhaps? But mostly, it’s just plain funny. A hallmark of The Simpsons’ love forabsurdity and silliness, which perfectly matches the tone of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland.
Lisa’s odyssey runs into rocky shores when Bart, jealous that Lisa is making new friends and he only has Milhouse, cruelly unmasks Lisa as a nerd. She runs off crying but the next day, Lisa discovers that Bart wracked with guilt, showed Lisa’s friends her yearbook, which they signed with heartfelt messages. They also decorated the family car with seashells and wrote “Lisa Rules” on the side. They don’t care about her being a nerd. They love her for it and see her as the great person she is. Lisa feels accepted and gains a new sense of self-confidence. She returns to Springfield filled with happiness, while Homer is filled with rage because seagulls keep attacking his seashell-covered car.
An itinerant storyteller, John Drain attended the University of Edinburgh before studying film at DePaul University in Chicago and later earned an MFA in Screenwriting from the American Film Institute Conservatory. John focuses on writing mysteries and thrillers featuring characters who are thrown into the deep end of the pool and struggle to just keep their heads above water. His work has been recognized by the Academy Nicholls Fellowship, the Austin Film Festival, ScreenCraft, Cinestory, and the Montreal Independent Film Festival. In a previous life, John created and produced theme park attractions across the globe for a wide variety of audiences. John keeps busy in his spare time with three Dungeons and Dragons campaigns and a seemingly never-ending stack of medieval history books.
All Things Alice: Interview with Stan Just
As an amateur scholar and die-hard enthusiast of everything to do with Alice in Wonderland, I have launched a podcast that takes on Alice’s everlasting influence on pop culture. As an author who draws on Lewis Carroll’s iconic masterpiece for my Looking Glass Wars universe, I’m well acquainted with the process of dipping into Wonderland for inspiration.
The journey has brought me into contact with a fantastic community of artists and creators from all walks of life—and this podcast will be the platform where we come together to answer the fascinating question: “What is it about Alice?”
For this episode, it was my great pleasure to have video game developer Stan Just join me as my guest! Read on to explore our conversation and check out the whole series on your favorite podcasting platform to listen to the full interview.
Frank Beddor Welcome to the podcast Stan Just. Thanks for being on the podcast. It’s always exciting to talk to another creative person who has been inspired by Alice in Wonderland. But I’m particularly interested in games because when I first started writing my books and I went to comic book conventions, people would always say, “We’ve read all of your books, but what are you going to do?” So I had the idea of doing a game, but, this was so long ago, it was in Flash. A lot of people came to it but I didn’t know I could monetize it with microtransactions or anything. So it cost me a fortune. People were really happy but I didn’t make any money. Then Flash disappeared two years later and all that work went for naught. Since then I’ve had a keen financial eye watching how people put games together and monetize them.
Stan Just I’ve had a similar experience with my first game that went out last year. We spent a lot of money and effort on it but, all in all, it didn’t pay it out. Not many people bought it.
FB I hear it’s pretty tough. I also had an agent for a while who worked exclusively in games. This was probably 15 years ago. My book was first published eighteen years ago and we went to all of the Activisions of the world. I would get in the room and I would pitch a vision of what I thought the world could be in the game. In the room, people seemed really engaged but at the end of the day, if there wasn’t a movie first, they weren’t interested. They would say, “Come back to us as soon as you have a deal with Warner Bros. I thought, “Well, once I have a Warner Bros. movie, what do I need you for?” Warner Bros. Games would have probably wanted to buy it. It’s hard to be independent out there.
SJ Absolutely. It’s very difficult to be publishing games right now.
FB Let’s talk about your game though. I’m gonna get into your history. I want to hear about your work on The Witcher games. I’m a big fan of the TV show.
You’re the CEO of your company. It’s called Covenant.dev. Tell us about the inspiration behind your upcoming game To the Star.
SJ It’s a survival adventure game that is aimed to support cooperative gameplay for up to four players. It’s a game in which players explore a whimsical fantasy realm inspired by Alice in Wonderland and The Little Prince, craft bizarre objects in their private dimension, and fight incredible creatures on their way to the star. The initial inspiration and the initial idea kind of came out of the blue. I was thinking about a game that would have a relatively simple main objective. This main objective was the spark. It’s inspired by the notion of a star falling on your planet and you want to get to it and uncover the story behind it. So that was the initial idea.
It evolved after a few months. We were exploring what the star will be. What kind of environment or what kind of a planet did it hit? Is it Earth? Maybe it could be something different? That led me to be inspired by this literature and led me to answer the question of what the star is. We decided to go more fantasy. It won’t be a comet or asteroid or something like that. It will be more whimsical, more fantastical. There’s a character on the star and that character has a story. I don’t want to spoil too much but he comes from a different planet and he crash lands on our planet. Again, our planet is not normal. It’s more whimsical because whimsicality is something cool and intriguing. It gives us the opportunity, as the creators, to do something new, to do something crazy, to do something surreal. It’s easier to surprise the player. If the game was set on Earth, it would be more grounded and more boring in the sense that people would have seen it all before. There’s not much room for surprise. So it was, let’s take the story of The Little Prince for the character on that piece of a planet that fell on our planet. He traveled some ways across the galaxy. He has a story of his own.
FB Let me ask you about combining genres. You have a fantasy, you have sci-fi, and you have Earth which is very grounded. So when you start to put those pieces together, how do you find a tone that feels consistent in terms of the gameplay and storytelling? Because, from my creative process and experience blending different genres, if it feels fresh and grounded enough that it’s not just random, then you feel like you’ve come up with something new that people can relate to. But if you combine too many things, they bump up against each other and then it doesn’t feel like a new form.
SJ I absolutely agree. If you mix too many things, it just becomes an unattractive blend. You need to be very careful about the believability of the world and the believability of your creation. For example, the sci-fi aspect is very, very limited. When you say “sci-fi”, many people think of technology and spaceships and lasers. We don’t have any of that. For example, the vehicle the character is on when he crashes on your planet is not a spaceship. It’s just a fragment of earth. There’s no technology there. The player doesn’t have the feeling of, “This is a sci-fi technology kind of thing. It’s rather a fairy tale, whimsical thing.”
That’s the most fun part, creating a believable world that is different, and whimsical, so the player can believe in this fantasy and be immersed in the atmosphere. Even though there are crazy things happening, it is all within the constraints of your creation. For example, we’ve got a character who’s a honey bee that is in the form of a jar with wings. But this creature doesn’t, for example, relocate within light speed, it doesn’t suddenly grow a shotgun and shoot you. It wouldn’t fit the story setting. He needs to fly. He’s a jar filled with honey, so he needs to be heavy in the animation. The movement needs to be believable even though it’s a jar of honey with wings.
FB There’s a logic to the weight and so you feel it’s not a speedy thing. It has its limitations. You bring up whimsical aspects a lot. Alice in Wonderland, to some people’s minds, is really a whimsical story because there are a lot of absurd things that happen. But, at the same time, there are a lot of people who interpret Alice in Wonderland as very dark and nightmarish because you’re out of control, you’re shrinking and you’re growing. It depends on your point of view.
Do you see Alice in Wonderland as a fantasy? Do you see dark elements? Which elements did you blend in? What was inspirational for the game?
SJ That’s a very interesting question. We use some scarier elements to a degree because we are still targeting a relatively young audience (10+) so we do not want to use very significant fear themes. That said, even if I watch animation or Disney movies with my five-year-old, there are some fearful themes. They’re oftentimes very useful in storytelling in order to show there is a threat or a challenge that the protagonist needs to overcome. This is useful in games as well, which rely pretty heavily on the notion of challenge. The challenge doesn’t need to always be scary. But if the challenge isn’t scary from time to time, if it’s funny, it’d be rather irritating. If something is rather scary, you’re feeling motivated to overcome it.
My point is that it will be used from time to time but it is not something you will see often in our game. It’s rather very visually appealing, even during the night. The biomes in the game, during the day, look like a fantasy world, dreamlike. But at night, they look similar to the Avatar movies, which is also attractive. So people don’t need to be afraid of the dark, right? We do not play on this theme anymore because we’ve played on this very often in our previous game. Now we’re not using it.
FB Can you share anything specific from Alice in Wonderland? Or is it more the idea of somebody coming in on a star and coming into a new world like Alice falling into the rabbit hole and encountering these quirky characters and the conflict she feels as she’s navigating this world? For instance, is there a Jabberwock?
SJ Not yet not in the current design but we are using bits and pieces. We are using references to either Alice or The Little Prince whenever we feel we’d have a good idea of how to use it. For example, in terms of enemy design, that’s definitely a direction we will be going in. But not necessarily in the format that you might expect. The rabbit was a very important character, obviously, in Alice but it was a positive one. We are using the rabbit in the form of an enemy, a very important enemy. I won’t spoil much, but it’s in the form of an iron Golem. It manipulates time and it has watches incorporated in its body. So we’re playing on this notion of a rabbit with clocks but it’s a scary one and he’s actually a robot with a clock. We want to be creative about it, we don’t want to just copy-paste things.
FB I love that idea because it incorporates elements from Alice in Wonderland but, as we just talked about, it has a sci-fi feel because it’s a robot. It serves both purposes, it gives you the whimsy of Alice that people will identify with and think is cool but it’s got the sci-fi bent. You’re talking about the development of To the Star, where are you in the process and where are you trying to get to?
SJ You can break the development of a contemporary video game into a concept phase where you do all the thinking and writing, and then prototyping, then you usually go for something called a vertical slice which is a representative fragment of the game. So concept, prototype, a very rough element of the game, then the demo. Then you go into full production. All the enemies, all the story, all the environments, and at the very end, you’re debugging. You’re erasing any mistakes that you made along the way. Currently, we are after the prototype but before the production so we are trying to do this demo that will showcase the idea that we’ve got and hopefully get some interest from potential investors in order to fund the project.
FB So, the demo is to show off the design and the gameplay. When you say investors, are you talking about going to publishers? Or are you looking for hard money, then move it along and take it to publishers afterward? Or are you going to be the developer and the publisher and have it on Steam or Twitch or something like that?
SJ We are considering both options. We are a stock option company and we are considering issuing shares or getting a publisher and proceeding down that path.
FB As a CEO raising money and doing a stock option, that’s its own beast.
SJ I have been there already. Our previous game was financed through both options. We started with issuing shares and then signed with a publisher.
FB What was your previous game?
SJ So the previous game was called Gord. A gord is a Slavic fortification from ancient times. It’s a strategy game, a very dark game based on Slavic mythology that we adapted to our needs. We actually wrote the whole mythology around the game. This is posted on YouTube, the player has an option to actually read through our version of Slavic mythology before playing through our story.
FB Wow, that’s amazing. Did you grow up writing? There’s so much creativity and writing needed when developing games, especially when you’re building worlds. Was that something you did a lot when you were a kid and into your adulthood?
SJ No, unfortunately, not. I was always somebody who had a talent for organizing stuff. That’s why I became a producer and that’s how I started my career. But when I became an independent developer, owning a small studio, I needed to wear a lot of hats. I needed to learn a lot of things. I really enjoyed both writing and directing so that was something I was really keen on doing. We even received a nomination a few days ago for a Digital Dragon Award for the Best Polish Narrative for Gord. That’s quite an accomplishment for us.
FB Congratulations. Since you’re playing in the Alice space, why do you think Alice continues to be a muse for so many creative people, whether it’s musicians, movies, or games? In your culture, Alice is big like it is in all cultures. Why do you think it translates?
SJ It’s appealing to me because it really opens up your imagination. There aren’t that many creations of literature that you actually know. Works that have so much imagination and, at the same time, are not totally crazy surrealistic things that don’t make any sense. It’s still believable and very appealing in that manner. But from a utilitarian standpoint, as I have to emphasize as a game creator, it is very practical to have such a setting because then you can allow yourself to do a lot of strange things and still have it fit in the setting you’ve chosen. Because not all the settings are like that. If you go with a realistic setting, you cannot teleport people or do anything magical. You are constrained within your setting. So the more open-ended setting you choose the more weird mechanics you can throw at the player and surprise them. So that’s very valuable.
FB What about the value of Alice in Wonderland being recognizable, or the value of The Little Prince being recognizable so that the player is grounded at the beginning of the game? You have Wonderland as a brand, as an IP, that’s helping position your game.
SJ Absolutely. That’s a good point on its own because when I’m saying I’ve got a game that’s inspired by this piece, then immediately people who know and like the inspiration can relate to the game. They already know how I’m positioning the product. So that’s very valuable. Because if I would say I’m doing a fantasy game, we wouldn’t be talking.
FB Exactly. That’s true.
SJ That’s very valuable. I’ve learned that when talking with investors but also publishers like you, you need to have a short sentence where you explain what your product is an interpretation of Alice in Wonderland by Tim Burton, especially the movie. You immediately know it’s these mechanics with this setting.
FB They understand what it is. You’re taking a brand and you’re redefining it for your own storytelling. Hundreds and thousands of people have done it and it’s really going to come down to the execution. If you execute right and you get that tone and you get that playability, then the investors can see there’s a way of selling it. It works in all businesses. As you said, Alice in Wonderland is a universal story and a universal world. It’s been around for so long that we almost forget how often it interplays with our day-to-day life, so why not put it into gameplay?
Why did you choose a survival adventure game for To the Star?
SJ Gord was a strategy adventure game, as I called it, so strategy adventure and now survival adventure. The main genre would be adventure. Doing adventure games is something that is very close to my heart. I think this notion of traveling, going on a journey, is very attractive and I had an idea of how to execute it. Why survival? Survival video games are not necessarily defined by the fact that somebody is struggling to survive.
It’s not the only element of the definition. It gets tricky when you’re talking about game genres. For example, if you ask somebody from the games industry what the definition of a survival game is, they would say the survival aspect is one thing, but there is also the base-building aspect. The progression of the character or the crafting itself as a core mechanic is very important. Crafting is a part of the definition of a survival game. Those mechanics are useful in your journey in order to craft stuff, have better gear, and in our game you also grow food because Alice has magical food so we wanted to build on that. Then we figured out we’ve got a survival adventure game. This genre is also very popular on our target platform. So that was also an argument.
FB As the CEO of a company you get to work with your team on the creative aspects and then you have the business aspect.
You mentioned when you’re pitching to investors, you have to have your elevator pitch. What games do you reference when saying to investors, “It’s like this game versus this game?” In movies, it’s “this movie meets this movie.” Do you have an equivalent for your game that our audience might be able to relate to?
SJ The main game we reference is called Grounded. We say it’s Grounded mixed with Tim Burton’s interpretation of Alice in Wonderland because we are using a lot of swirly shapes and Burton-esque art style. We wanted to use it in a positive and optimistic version, not a dark one, not a scary one. This is also our angle because a lot of survival adventure games are scary, very grounded, and very down on Earth. We want to offer the game to the same audience but give them something more positive, something more whimsical, and something more fun, hopefully.
FB This just popped into my mind. Do you have a boy or a girl?
SJ I’ve got a boy, Gabriel.
FB Since you’ve had Gabriel, how has your thinking towards games changed, if at all?
SJ Absolutely. My thinking about indie development actually started when I was preparing to be a father. Then he was born when I was actually doing my first indie game. So my child and my company are being developed simultaneously. It definitely affects me as a creator. In my first game, Gord, we were playing with the fact that you were a steward supervising a village full of subjects. You needed to provide them with food, tuition, housing, etc. But there was also a sanity parameter. You need to take care of the psychological aspect of their health.
As a psychologist by education, I was asking myself what would be the strongest stressor, the most emotionally heavy thing that would affect the mentality of your subject. So, immediately, the death of a child popped into my head. Being a father affected some of the decisions I made like putting children into Gord. There are also some aspects of To the Star but I cannot spoil it.
FB I have two children, 16 and 18. I’m a little further along than you are but when I was writing my novels, the way they would see the world, the way I would tell them stories, and the way they would react to these stories really influenced my writing. That whole thing you talked about with imagination and opening up your imagination when you’re a kid and having these really powerful imaginations. That became thematic in my books as a magic system. Because you start to lose that when you get older. The world wants you to fit in a box. There’s no such thing as a box for kids.
Can we chat a little bit about The Witcher? I’ve actually never played the game but I’ve watched the shows and it’s a very deep mythology and very complex in the way they tell the stories using different timelines and then connecting them. But can you talk a little bit about your experience with the game? Then, have you watched the show?
SJ My first question is, have you watched the Polish show from the early 2000s?
FB I have not. How are they different?
SJ There are a lot of similarities, especially to the first Netflix season. However, the early 2000s adaptation had a much lower budget and production capabilities. The Witcher franchise is very political, it gets very complex. There aren’t as many main characters as in Game of Thrones, you’ve mainly Ciri and Geralt. But I would say The Witcher is on par with Game of Thrones in terms of complexity.
When I was playing the second installment of the game, after just thirty minutes you’ve got the dialogue, you’ve got so many names of regions and characters. If you haven’t followed the books you can get easily confused about what’s actually happening. The people are trying to explain the political dynamics of the world and how it came to be in the current setting. That’s not often seen in video games.
FB You see that in novels because you can read it slowly and you can go back. For The Witcher game, why do you think that ended up working? It was so complex and there’s so much to carry in your mind. Or was it that, if you couldn’t carry it all, the playability was still really engaging? Because that’s a lot to ask of the audience or the player.
SJ Absolutely. The games are often framed in a way that allows the player to choose what they’re interested in and what they want to ignore. There is a deeper story layer that you can get into and it will be rewarding to you but if you’re not interested you can just follow the marker on your map. You keep the dialogue, skip the cutscenes, and just follow the marker, kill the guy, and get the reward. You can fine-tune the game to your needs. That helps.
Then The Witcher games were framed in a way that they had their own Unique Selling Point (USP). The main USP of The Witcher franchise was the choices and the consequences. We tried when working on the third installment, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, to make a game where you felt the choice and the burden of the choice you’ve made along your journey. The game definitely succeeded in that, although it was very difficult to pull off because it’s a complex game. It has a lot of quests and a lot of missions. It’s a very long game. Then the quest designers, who were the best in the world, actually needed to control that. So they needed to say, “All right, so if you just ignored that guy a few hours before and then you get into a romantic relationship with this person a few hours later, then it somehow intertwines into this aspect of the game. It gives you a bonus option you can pursue. That was very, very complex. I was the producer of the cinematics and the dialogues and we had around 1,500 interactions. In each interaction, there was a lot of branching off in how you could go about your dialogue. That was very laborious to pull off and still give value to a lot of those options that you chose.
FB How many years did it take to develop that game? I mean, I’m assuming it’s built off of games one and two, The Witcher and The Witcher Two: Assassins of the Kings, but given the complexity you’re talking about, it’s a long haul.
SJ I wasn’t at the very beginning of the concept phase of the game, but I think it was five years. The next title I worked on, Cyberpunk 2077, took even longer and it went even further in terms of the consequences and how you behave within the world.
FB Have any other games come along since The Witcher games that have anywhere close to that level of complexity?
SJ Yes, especially Baldur’s Gate3, which launched last year. That’s a very complex game but they do it in a different way and it’s also fantastic. But The Witcher has its own flavor.
FB I assume you’re not playing The Witcher with your son yet?
SJ No, no.
FB Does he play any games or do you allow him to play games?
SJ I allow him to play games. He has his own phone, on which he cannot call, but he has some games there. Those are the only games I allow. They’re usually logic games, chess, and learning words.
FB Very, very good parenting. How about other kinds of games, like tabletop games? Are you a gaming family across genres?
SJ Absolutely. We try to play as much as we can. However, video games have the advantage of oftentimes being flashy and very rewarding, and also being very helpful in regards to showing you moves that are allowed and preventing you from doing something that is not allowed in the game. I’m thinking about chess, for example. On the physical chessboard, you can do some stuff that is not allowed by the game but is still fun to do. But in the video game version, you can’t. So I see many advantages of the video game, but tabletop is something that we utilize as well.
FB I understand you lecture quite a bit about game development. How are you in front of an audience of I’m assuming students?
SJ Right now, I feel rather good, especially if prepared. I’ve been lecturing for a few years now but at first, it was a struggle for me since I’m rather an introvert. Also doing it in English because it’s not my native tongue. But right now, especially if I’m prepared and not improvising, it’s going pretty well.
FB What you just said about improvising versus being prepared is a critical component of speaking in front of a large audience. I did a lot of school visits. If you’re talking to fifth or sixth graders, they’re so happy to be out of class you can just start telling them a story. It’s great when you get around eighth graders where they’ve hit puberty and they’re all trying to be cool. They’re all chatting and there’s a couple hundred of them. You better be on your game to get them engaged and if they’re not engaged, you better be brave enough to call them out. Whenever I did school events, there were always the two kids who weren’t paying attention that I focused on, not the hundred who were engaged. I would try and make a joke like, “Do you guys want to go make out somewhere?” Then the audience would laugh and they would be embarrassed and they would shut up.
SJ I wasn’t brave enough to talk in front of the younger audiences.
FB It’s a different skill set but I enjoyed it almost more than the adult audiences because with the adult audiences, they’re really engaged in the process. But when it’s a young audience, especially fifth and sixth graders, they would just sit on the ground, it looked so uncomfortable, and they would just look up. You’d just have to find some way to turn their attention away from the friend next to them and then they would be like, “Whoa,” and so you tell a little story. It really showed the power of storytelling.
The other part of it is you’re teaching, so once you have them, then you can communicate the lesson, whether it’s the struggles of being a writer or being a game developer, and how that relates to life and overcoming challenges. Lots of times, the teachers wanted me to say how many times I had to rewrite my book because their students would write their work once and say, “I’m done.” And the teachers would say, “No, you have to rewrite it.” So I would show photographs of all of the notes from my editor, the things they liked, and the things they didn’t like, which were in red. On the first page, there’d be a couple of items in red, and on the next page, it would be full of notes. The kids would go, “Oh, whoa,” and I’d say how I had to rewrite it ten times. The English teachers would come up to me afterward and say, “Thank you so much.”
SJ The rewrite process you’re talking about is also very often used in video games. It’s always very painful. One of the ways CD Projekt RED is doing what they’re doing is through iterations. When they were asked in an interview how they achieved such high quality in the writing and quests, they said, “Through iterations.” Some people were working on their quests for a year or two but their work actually ended up not landing in the game. Somebody else took over, rewrote it, and then they released it. You were working on the game for some time and you’d be amazed that your work hadn’t actually made it to the final version. That’s sad but this is the cost of quality. I’ve done many versions of a trailer for To the Star. I think we’re currently on the twenty-second iteration and I’m getting a feeling from my editor that he’s already tired with my notes. I think we need to be wrapping up.
FB Luckily, you pay him. So he has to continue until you’re satisfied. Just have them read Steve Jobs’ biography and they’ll probably be very happy he has you as a CEO. In the movie business, that development process can be very similar. You’re developing and developing and sometimes you do over-develop and you don’t even remember what the inspiring idea was in the beginning. Then it turns out to be terrible and you have to go back and bring in another team and they go back to the beginning. But, in redoing things, if there’s somebody in charge, if there’s the general and they’re making the decision it’s okay. It’s when there’s a committee, that’s the problem. I don’t mind rewriting it over and over if my editors have good notes but at the end of the day, it’s my decision on what the sentence is, what the paragraph is, what the chapter is, and what the book is. I imagine you’re the one who says, “Okay, this is good enough or this is perfect. Let’s put it out there.”
SJ That’s how we structure our work at my company. I am a big fan of participatory management styles that invite anybody to participate in the process regardless of your position in the company. Whether you just joined and began or you have been a director at some posh company, that doesn’t matter. If you have good ideas, then just bring them up. Hopefully, I will see that and use that in the development process. But also, I do agree with you that there needs to be a person who actually keeps it all together, a vision holder.
FB I really appreciate chatting with you today. I wish you luck in finishing To the Star, your Alice in Wonderland, and The Little Prince video game.
Who’s in Charge of the Chaos of “Wicked” the Movie?
I’ve done almost every job on a film set, from a day-player P.A. to directing and producing a short film. I’ve held an umbrella over the camera while getting soaked on a cold, rainy day in Chicago and wrangled a dog in a New York City park on a beautiful spring day. So trust me when I say that the most difficult job I’ve had on set is script supervisor (also called continuity). It’s one of the lesser known positions amongst the general public but no film or television set could function without a good scripty. It’s a conduit between production and post-production, the nexus of all information on the shoot.
The script supervisor has three main duties – ensure continuity, log every take with notes for the director and editor, and ensure everything in the script is captured during production. You’d be surprised how many times chunks of dialogue or crucial parts of story are forgotten about in the chaos of set life. The shooting log is essential for the editor and director, the notations of every variation in each take contributing to an efficient post-production process. And continuity? Well, remember when a Northern Ireland coffee shop got some unintentional product placement on Game of Thrones?
However, the best way to fully understand the work of a script supervisor is to take a deep dive and do a case study of an individual project. Luckily, we have a treasure trove of documents from Frank Beddor’s 1998 psychological thriller Wicked. This collection of notes and photos provides an excellent insight into life as a script supervisor.
The script supervisor on Wicked was Dina Waxman, a set life veteran who has worked with such directors as Michael Mann, Spike Jonze, Wong Kar Wai, and John Frankenheimer. She has written and directed seven short films and has served as a scripty on over one hundred commercials, two TV series, and 12 films, including David Fincher’s iconic 1999 action thriller Fight Club starring Brad Pitt.
On Wicked, Waxman worked closely with costume designer Sara Jane Slotnick (Alpha Dog, Loving) and wardrobe supervisor Jim Hansen (Kill Bill Vol. 1 and Vol. 2) to produce a thoroughly detailed catalog of each actor’s wardrobe pieces for every day of shooting. From more general items like the types of outfits or the number of wardrobe changes to the more minuscule details such as if an actor’s wearing any jewelry or the way their shirt tucks into their pants. It is all noted, photographed, and indexed. It is a painstaking amount of work and requires a mind that is simultaneously able to hold both the minute and larger picture in equal importance at the same time.
There are a few reasons why this obsessive level of detail is required. Scenes will often be shot out of sequence and your director and cinematographer may choose to start with the end of the scene rather than the beginning or return to a scene later in production or during reshoots. You will also need to reset for each take and each time the camera moves. The actor’s costume needs to be the same as the other shots because if you have a shot where your actor’s sleeve is up and that sleeve down in the next angle, your film is going to look pretty amateurish. Your editor and director need shots that link up to produce a cohesive cut.
The Wardrobe Continuity log above contains all the information needed to identify what is being shot. It lists the shooting day, the scenes being shot, what is happening in those scenes, and what the actor, in this case Julia Stiles, who won Best Actress at the Karlovy Vary International Film Festival for playing Ellie, wears in those scenes. This is designed so costume, props, camera, anybody, can take a quick look and get all the information they need. On the flip side of that document are polaroids of the actor in those costumes, giving the crew a visual they can match when resetting the scene. Quick note about the photos, script supervising can sometimes seem like you’re shooting behind-the-scenes content. You will take so many photos. You’ll think to yourself, “Am I taking too many photos?” and then realize you haven’t taken nearly enough. Thankfully, in 2024, scriptys use their phones so there aren’t any polaroids to come unstuck and slip out of the binder.
The scenes chronicled above call for Ellie (Julia Stiles) to wear a “cotton sleeveless nightgown” in Scenes 47-50 with a cardigan over it for Scenes 51-53. In the first polaroid, it’s noted that the nightgown is buttoned up and Stiles is wearing a ring on her left thumb and a blue and green bracelet on her left wrist. Those items are also marked on the photo itself. The second photo, where Julia Stiles is wearing the cardigan, also notes the placement of the ring and bracelet, even though you can’t see the jewelry because of the sweater’s sleeve. Why does the actor have to wear the ring and bracelet even if you can’t see them? Because, during the time frame in which these scenes take place, it wouldn’t be realistic for the character to have removed her jewelry. So if she lifts her arm during the scene and the sleeve falls down, the audience will notice she’s missing her ring and bracelet from the previous scene. This would take them out of the story and threaten to compromise their ability to suspend their disbelief, which is essential in any type of film viewing, but especially with Wicked.
For the third polaroid, the most important element is that Stiles will be wearing the same outfit in nonsequential scenes. The scenes take place during different times of the day and in a few different locations. If she got changed during lunch or they shot a different scene in the afternoon that required a wardrobe change, this snapshot ensures that the costume department can get her back into wardrobe quickly, efficiently, and accurately. This leads to a smoother set where the cast and crew can fully focus on character and story instead of the location of the main character’s turquoise blue Hawaiin.
You’ll notice that the log above contains much less information than the one shown in the previous section. However, the scenes represented here are infinitely more complex. Why? Well, if you guessed the blood, you’re absolutely correct. Blood and gore are super fun to work with but it’s a complicated, stressful business. First, there are the safety considerations. The fact that blood is being used on set generally means the actor or stunt double will be required to perform a stunt involving violence. In Wicked, for example, this sequence called for Ellie to be struck in the head with a heavy object and for Lawson Smith (Patrick Muldoon of Starship Troopers and Melrose Place). The safety of the individuals involved in the stunts is paramount and a lot of effort and concentration from everyone on the crew goes into making sure they’re safe.
The second reason special effects work such as blood can be challenging for crews is because blood is a continuity nightmare. How do you ensure the blood on the set and the blood on the actor’s costume match angle to angle, take to take? The answer – lots and lots of pictures. The pictures above are essential to ensuring continuity with lots of moving parts that usually require multiple setups to capture. The first photo would’ve been taken either before or after the camera started rolling so the crew could match their positioning and the amount and placement of blood when setting up another shot. The second photo specifies the blood droplets on Stiles’ shirt, allowing the crew to ensure they can replicate the pattern if they need a new top. The third polaroid specifies the position of Stiles’ clothing in a specific shot so the crew can once again match that look in subsequent set-ups. Working with special effects often makes for a high-pressure environment given the lost time and higher costs that can be a consequence of a mistake, so the script supervisor needs to be flawless in their documentation.
The position of script supervisor is a multi-faceted, sometimes stressful position that requires constant communication with every department. For a film like Wicked, requiring several specific costumes and detailed special effects work, Dina Waxman’s work contributed to an efficient set, allowing the actors and directors to craft an engrossing thriller that captivated audiences at Sundance and launched Julia Stiles’ career.
You can watch Julie Stiles’ breakthrough performance in Wicked on the following streaming platforms: Amazon, YouTube, Apple TV, Google Play, Vudu, Plex, and Tubi.
An itinerant storyteller, John Drain attended the University of Edinburgh before studying film at DePaul University in Chicago and later earned an MFA in Screenwriting from the American Film Institute Conservatory. John focuses on writing mysteries and thrillers featuring characters who are thrown into the deep end of the pool and struggle to just keep their heads above water. His work has been recognized by the Academy Nicholls Fellowship, the Austin Film Festival, ScreenCraft, Cinestory, and the Montreal Independent Film Festival. In a previous life, John created and produced theme park attractions across the globe for a wide variety of audiences. John keeps busy in his spare time with three Dungeons and Dragons campaigns and a seemingly never-ending stack of medieval history books.
RADIATION AND RABBITS: THE PARALLELS BETWEEN “FALLOUT” AND “ALICE IN WONDERLAND”
Remember when video games were good? I know good games come out all the time but take my blanket statement at face value for a second. Recently it feels like every triple-A developer is just rehashing old games and not taking any risks. I remember a better time, a time when big studio games felt like a labor of love and not a cash grab. For me, there is no better example of a game studio that used to be amazing but has fallen from grace recently than Bethesda. Their Fallout series is a perfect example of this, Fallout3, Fallout: New Vegas, and Fallout 4 were amazing games, probably some of my favorite games of all time. It seemed like they could do no wrong. But everything changed when the micro-transactions attacked… Today, Bethesda is run by greedy little piggies who have no idea what their player base wants and just continually re-releases their rapidly aging catalog of hit games with minor graphical updates so they can continue to charge the consumer full price for ten-plus-year-old games. At one point, many moons ago, they created and released fun and creative games, and the Fallout series, for me, was their peak.
For those of you who have never played any of the Fallout games, it’s a first-person and/or third-person role-playing game set in an alternate, retro-future timeline of America. In this timeline, EVERYTHING is nuclear-powered, and I mean everything. Televisions, microwaves, cars, robots, and there is even a soda called “Nuka-Cola” which is radioactive. Well, when everything is nuclear-powered, it’s pretty easy to assume that every single country in the world would probably have a sizable stockpile of nuclear missiles as well. That assumption is correct, and unfortunately, those countries decide to nuke the shit out of each other. I guess we only see that America was nuked but I’m going to assume that we responded before we were reduced to radioactive dust. Isn’t mutually assured destruction wonderful? The thing is, some people were prepared for this nuclear armageddon, they had “insurance.” The insurance was that they had paid to be locked into giant underground vaults. These vaults were built to ensure the survival of the human race in the event of nuclear war and they are set to open once the surface is habitable again.
In the Fallout games, you play as a “vault dweller” who, for one tragic reason or another, has decided to leave their vaults and enter into the unknown surface above. The exception to this case is Fallout: New Vegas where you actually play as, what is essentially, a vengeful mailman. Regardless, while one would assume that the surface is a barren landscape after the nukes, that is anything but the case, people survived, but they did not thrive. The surface is full of mutants (both human and animal), raiders, religious knights in power armor, mad scientists, and much more, all battling for control of the wasteland in an attempt to fill the power vacuum that was left behind when every government ever fell. From there, what’s left of the world is your oyster.
That overstuffed paragraph is a brief overview of the world of Fallout. I’m honestly barely scratching the surface here. With a story that rich, it’s only natural that after the massive success of HBO’s The Last of Us T.V. adaptation, other studios would want to cash in on the video game television show hype. I’m sure we won’t get tired of it… Well, Amazon adapted Fallout into a television show, and let me tell you, it’s awesome. The Fallout show follows three different characters whose paths intersect but for the sake of this blog, I’m mostly going to focus on Lucy MacLean played by Ella Purnell. Lucy is a vault dweller whose family has lived in the vaults for many generations. Well, something happens that I don’t want to spoil and she has to leave the vault. There she faces the wild world of the radioactive wasteland that was once Los Angeles.
If you haven’t figured out why I’m writing about this show on an Alice in Wonderland-themed website by now, it’s time to realize you might not be as smart as you think. I’ll put it in terms you can understand. Woman lives in a world where things make sense to her, goes in a hole, and enters a world where everyone is crazy and must learn rules to keep her head. Fallout is Alice in Wonderland. Replace a rabbit hole with a vault door, the whimsical nature of Wonderland with the wildness of the Wasteland, and the Jabberwocks with Deathclaws, and boom it’s the same story. People even lose their heads in the show too. Now, you might not be completely sold on this fact but lend me your ears, or I guess eyes in this case, and by the end of this blog, I will have you shoving this fact down people’s throats too.
I’ve already given an overview of the Alice character, Lucy, but I want to go a bit deeper before tackling the other characters. Okay, I said there wouldn’t be spoilers but I lied skip to the next paragraph if you don’t want any… One.. Two… Three… Spoilers, the first person Lucy meets perfectly sets the stage for my argument that she and Alice are the same character. Lucy meets a person living on the surface who is trying to use a machine that will extract water from whatever is put in it. This person is struggling to use said machine because when he puts sand in the hopper, only sand comes out. Which is a problem we have all had. In his mind, the machine is broken, but to Lucy’s logical mind, dry sand can’t be turned into water. Their interaction mirrors many of the interactions Alice has in Wonderland. Where Alice explains that something a Wonderlander is doing is “illogical” to her but the Wonderlander finds it perfectly logical. After Lucy and the Wastelander’s brief interaction, the Wastelander asks Lucy if she wants to marry him because she gave him water. Not in a hyperbolic way, he means it. He even shows all the great stuff he has to offer, like his sand. In his mind, this is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
I lied about the spoilers ending here, go to the next paragraph to truly skip the spoilers… Another example of the Wasteland essentially being Mad Max: Wonderland is in a scene where another character, Maximus played by Aaron Clifton Moten, saves a man who is about to be killed by another person. On the surface, it seems as though the would-be killer is a crazy person. It turns out that the victim he had rescued, who claims to be a “scientist” was having biblical relations with the “aggressors” chickens. Killing someone for fraternizing with poultry is pretty logical. There is a choking the chicken double entendre joke opportunity here but that’s too blue for me to say… Hey, don’t get mad at me, you’re the one who came up with it in your filthy minds… How is this Alice in Wonderland related? Well, I would argue that this scene is meant to establish the madhouse that is the Wasteland and those who inhabit it. The man who was trying to protect his birds even says the fact with an air of exhaustion in his voice, as if this isn’t the first time this has happened and probably won’t be the last. It’s just the world he lives in. Maximus has grown up on essentially an army base his whole life so the wilds of the wasteland to him are just like the wilds of Wonderland for Alice. Things just are the way they are because that’s how they are.
The Fallout television show doesn’t just share a lot of similarities with Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, it also has characters eerily similar to other Alice-related IPs. Take Cooper Howard a.k.a. “The Ghoul” played by Walton Goggins. First, because I have to, a “Ghoul” in the Fallout universe is a human who has been exposed to high levels of radiation, causing their flesh to melt. Due to their appearance, they are essentially second-class citizens. The terrible hand they have been dealt is compounded due to the radiation affecting their minds as well, all ghouls are slowly going feral and without constant medication will eventually become essentially human-shaped animals that kill and eat anything that moves. Well, Cooper Howard is a bit of an antihero in this show. He’s survived in the Wasteland for hundreds of years and knows the rules of this world and how to navigate it. He’s a badass bounty hunter who’s honed his fighting skills living in a harsh environment. Nothing surprises him and his gruff exterior shields a tormented past. He instantly reminded me of a character created from the mind of my overseer, Frank Beddor. That character is Hatter Madigan, Frank’s version of the Mad Hatter. While Hatter Madigan is an elite member of the Millinery, in the Looking Glass Wars novels, he wanders the globe looking for Alice. Wherever he goes, tales of his epic deeds follow. Much like The Ghoul. Plus they both wear long coats.
If I haven’t sold you on the fact that the Wasteland is Wonderland, Lucy is Alice, and that Fallout, whether the writers of the games knew it or not, is quite similar to Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, I have one final thing to drive my point home. Let’s look at the mysterious antagonist of the Fallout T.V. show, Lee Moldaver. I haven’t finished the show yet and my internet is down at the moment, but from what I’ve gained from the six episodes I have seen, she is a powerful woman whose name alone strikes fear into the hearts of those who live in the Wasteland. Just like the Red Queen/Queen Redd does in Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland.
When a piece of media is so popular and transformative to storytelling as Lewis Carroll’s Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland was, it’s not hard to notice similarities in all the media that comes after it. The basic premise of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland is the perfect foundation for a fantastic story. If done correctly, like the Fallout series, it’s a recipe for success. Due to this, it’s easy to see why Alice has endured for as long as it has.
Jared Hoffman graduated from the American Film Institute with a degree in screenwriting. A Los Angeles native, his brand of comedy is satire stemming from the many different personalities and egos he has encountered throughout his life. As a lover of all things comedy, Jared is always working out new material and trying to make those around him laugh. His therapist claims this is a coping mechanism, but what does she know?
